Thursday Alternative Housing Open Comments

We live in a geodesic dome, and we like it. I have issues with the floor, which we patterned ourselves (DARN that last late-arriving concrete truck!). It was our first time using our pattern roller, and it wasn’t until we moved in that I realized that the grooves in the floor are deeper than desired, and make cleaning difficult. It’s also bigger than I had anticipated – paper is so much different than sticks and bricks! We are still finishing it, trying to get our permits and such completed and passed. One thing we’ve found – you can’t keep secrets in a dome. The acoustics are such that people downstairs sound like they are upstairs. A whisper can be heard as well as a shout. Be careful what you say in a dome! (Two of our contractors actually got caught in that reality – they didn’t like each other, and though we warned them, there were loose lips….)

There are many different types of domes. There are the monolithic types, and there are the panel types (which we have). Designing the interior is different, as the ceiling can be very high (ours is almost 30 feet) and the walls are not square.

Because of the size, I’ve been curious about the other side of the issue - tiny homes. It’s amazing what can be packed into a small space. Being an American and a Texan, it’s hard to imaging living in such small spaces, though I find the idea intriguing.

I came home the other night and for some reason, found myself perusing web sites for shipping container homes. These containers can be a way of providing functional and affordable housing, though it ain’t always what you think.

And then there are other unusual homes. The egg pod, for example. The seashell house. Berm homes and earth-sheltered homes. Underground homes. Missile silos. Caves.

There are a lot of small apartments, especially in New York and Japan. I remember when Lovely was in her smallest dorm room in college, and could almost touch two walls (well, a wall and her drawers), and she was unhappy with it. These people are EXCITED about it?

And then there’s the ultimate small apartment.
Wow.

With all of these options, why are there so many stick and brick homes built in squares and rectangles?

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82 thoughts on “Thursday Alternative Housing Open Comments

  1. For the past two decades, the Leadership of the Republican Party, and the Deep Thinkers and Deep Pockets that support them, have given much Wise Counsel regarding the type of Candidate the Party should run for the Presidency. They have said that the further to the Right we reach for someone to represent us, the less likely we are to elect him. They have said that such candidates advocate economic policies that they agree with, but such economics are difficult to explain to Independents and low information voters. They have said that some on the Right hold social views that, although they agree with them, come as a result of deeply held religious views which can sometimes frighten Independents and low information voters and that, although its unfortunate that Independents feel that way, such viewsare easy for the Democrat Party to demagogue and difficult to defend. They have said that some on the Right have an unfortunate propensity to say things and take positions that, while they agree with them, are easy for the Democrat Party to demagogue and difficult to defend. And lastly, they pointed to an unfortunate racial history on the Right that, although that history is long in the past and it is unfair that it this stereotype exists, that history is present nonetheless and should be considered because Democrats can be counted on to use it. For these reasons, they have advised that we run candidates from the “center” as they will be more palatable to Independents as they will be more like them and are easier to defend when the Democrat Party and a hostile media attack them. Yes, we should be ever mindful of the hostility of the media and consider what they will do and say with the positions and personal history of our candidates, and thus should avoid more controversial candidates from the Right.

    Thus, early on in the Primary Process, leading lights in the party, and the many Deep Thinkers and Deep Pockets that support them decided to back a candidate and declared him to be so electable as to be the inevitiable candidate. Anyone who disagrees is foolish or crazy and is unwittingly working to lose the election for us. He is our best chance at beating Obama, they say, because he does not represent the Right Wing of the Party that embarasses them so. They say this because he is the richest man to run for the office in modern memory, which makes him more like voters in the Center. They say this because he ran a corporation that made investments that resulted in the loss of jobs in a climate where nearly 10% of the electorate is unemployed, but the economics behind the corporation will be easy to explain to Independents and low information voters. They say this because the fact that the candidate has Cayman Island Investments and Swiss Bank Accounts, and the impression these phrases leave on the minds of voters will be easy to erase. He has said that he enjoys being able to fire people, that the economy is improving under Barack Obama, that he’s not concerned with poor people, and supports automatic increases in the minimum wage, and they say that these embarassing statements will be easy to defend against Democrat demagoguery. And finally, as Richard Miniter explains:

    Romney’s racial problem. If he wins the nomination, Romney will be running against the first black President of the United States while he comes from a church that did not see black people as eligible members until 1978. Since then, the Church of Latter-Day Saints has done remarkable outreach and can claim vast numbers of members in all races and all parts of the globe. And, of course, Romney is not a racist.

    Nevertheless, this issue will be brought up by Obama’s surrogates in 2012 campaign. It is not fair and not right, but it is reality. The views of Mormons toward blacks, Jewish ancestors and Jesus Christ will be presented as strange and revolting by too many voices in the major media. Religious bigotry exists, even among the very educated and influential. How that issue is handled will sway moderates, independents and suburban women—all of whom the GOP needs to prevail in November.

    All of this has led me to believe that when the leadership of the Republican Party and all the Deep Thinkers and Deep Pockets that support them explained why we should not run candidates from the Right, they were lying. They were not merely running the best candidate who had the best chance of winning, they just don’t like Conservatives or Conservatism, have no real interest in advancing it, and were just making excuses.

    Good God, man! Give it a rest or take your OCD somewhere else. Maybe some place where there aren’t Deep Thinkers and Deep Pockets and Teh Establishment holding an Invisible Primareh in order to guarantee their Manchurian Candidate is nominated. This blog and its Stablishment leaders are clearly in the tank (in your mind) for the DTs and DPs. You are wearing out your welcome here.

  2. 5 Katfish says:
    February 2, 2012 at 7:15 am
    paper is so much different than sticks and bricks

    paper? Please ‘splain for me Lucee…………………

    What you see in your mind when you look at the drawings isn’t what is really on the drawings.

  3. 8 Katfish says:
    February 2, 2012 at 7:33 am
    low information voters

    ?? izzat anything like a dumaxx?

    Nope.

    Its people who don’t spend most of thier time on political and news blogs following elections and candidates the way we do.

    Some folks call them “normal people”.

  4. Good morning SergeBoneVille — oh wait, never mind.

    This is the third morning in a row when it was raining as I got up and made coffee. I do love it but at the same time, I’m glad I don’t have to drive off into it to get my job done anymore.

    I’ll loop back and look at all the oddball house links after I’m a bit more woke-up.

  5. TT

    Daughter Reesa’s first apt. in NY was a two bedroom. Neither one had a closet, the “large” bedroom would hold a bed and a dresser, the second bedroom would hold only a bed.

  6. From the lyrics of Limbo Rock:
    How low can you go?

    Mutant Deer Shot Near A Polluted River. (very Graphic Image)

    A Cancerous deer shot in Dimock PA. Lived near a stream where fracturing water had been said to be leaking. We will all be screwed soon…

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/mathieus/mutant-deer-shot-near-a-polluted-river-very-grap-8q4

    The actual pic came from here:

    White-tailed Deer Warts

    BuckManager.com | February 10 | Disease & Virus

    White-tailed Doe with Fibromasts

    A deer hunter never expects to see giant warts or tumor-like growths on a white-tailed deer, but they do occur. Over the years I’ve seen many of photos of both live and harvested deer with “tumors,” although I’ve never seen one while in the field. The technical term for these growths is cutaneous fibroma and it’s caused by a virus. From a deer management perspective, there is not much you can do to keep wild deer from getting fibroma.
    Cutaneous fibromas (warts) are caused by a naturally occurring virus of the deer’s skin

    snip

    The take home message today is that warts occur naturally in white-tailed deer populations. Fibromasts can occur on any deer, healthy or otherwise. With that said, they occur rather rarely and there is nothing that can be done from a deer management standpoint. Deer are the only host for the virus, so fear not for yourself should you find yourself standing over an infected animal.

    http://www.buckmanager.com/2010/02/10/white-tailed-deer-tumors-or-warts/

  7. Joke of the day. How come I’m not laughing?

    First lady Michelle Obama cites ‘remarkable progress’ on the economy
    By Alicia M. Cohn – 02/01/12 07:54 AM ET

    First Lady Michelle Obama cited “remarkable progress” on the economy during a speech for a small crowd of high-profile Hollywood names in Los Angeles on Tuesday evening.

    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/207885-michele-obama-cites-remarkable-progress-on-the-economy-

    And the truth is: (Drum roll please)

    Congressional budget chief offers dim outlook on economic growth, jobs
    By Jim Angle
    Published February 01, 2012

    Congressional Budget Office Director Doug Elmendorf on Wednesday projected that economic growth will slow by next year and unemployment will rise before that — a forecast that Rep. Paul Ryan called ominous, grim and alarming.

    snip

    The CBO believes that economic growth will be only 2 percent this year — and an anemic 1.1 percent next year.

    The office says that will leave the unemployment rate at 8.9 percent at the end of this year, well above current the current rate of 8.5 percent, meaning the jobless rate would be increasing at election time.

    That prompted this exchange between Rep. Tom McClintock, R-Calif., and the CBO director.
    “Let me ask you, are there more people working today or fewer people working today than at the — on inauguration day of 2009?” McClintock asked.

    “I believe the answer to that,” said Elmendorf, “is there are fewer people, congressman.”

    And in 2013, CBO estimates unemployment will be even higher — at 9.2 percent.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/02/01/congressional-budget-chief-offers-dim-outlook-on-economic-growth-jobs/

  8. This is the third morning in a row when it was raining as I got up and made coffee. I do love it but at the same time, I’m glad I don’t have to drive off into it to get my job done anymore.

    Given the amount of rain thus far, and the forecast of 60% chance of rain tomorrow, Scout The Wonder Dog and I won’t be going to the Wayback tomorrow evening.

  9. Along with being on the hot seat with Congress today, here’s something else Eric Holder can chew on:

    Slain border agent’s family alleges lies over ATF gun program
    It says then-U.S. Atty. Dennis Burke falsely told them guns found at the scene weren’t part of the failed Operation Fast and Furious.

    By Richard A. Serrano, Washington Bureau

    February 1, 2012, 8:50 p.m.
    Reporting from Washington—
    The family of slain U.S. Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry charged Wednesday that the top federal prosecutor in Phoenix lied to them about the guns found at the crime scene in an attempt to hide the weapons’ connection to the ATF’s failed Fast and Furious gun-tracking operation.

    snip

    The Terry family alleged that then-U.S. Atty. Dennis K. Burke told them last March that the two weapons came from a store in Texas and were not part of Fast and Furious.

    The family made their allegations in a “notice of claim” stating that they intend to sue the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and the Justice Department for $25 million. They called the gun-tracking operation “abominable, reckless, nonsensical.”

    snip

    After a memorial service in Tucson in January 2011, the family met with Border Patrol, FBI and Justice Department officials in a hotel conference room. “But the officials gave them almost no information and wouldn’t answer the family’s questions,” the notice says. Two family members walked out.

    “The federal officials were obviously covering something up, and their actions only added to the family’s grief,” the notice says.

    In March, Burke met with the family in Michigan, where they live. “But this meeting went even worse,” the notice says. “Burke hemmed and hawed, bobbed and weaved, refused to give straight answers, and flat-out lied about what he knew about Brian’s death and Operation Fast and Furious.”

    The notice quotes Burke as saying the fatal bullet would never be found, even though it had already been located during an autopsy. And he told them the AK-47s were “bought from a gun store in Texas and were not linked to Operation Fast and Furious.”

    In fact, the notice says, “Burke actually knew within hours of Brian’s murder that they were purchased from a Phoenix gun shop under ATF surveillance the previous January” — a fact borne out by Burke’s emails.

    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-atf-guns-20120202,0,6431783.story

  10. I have not heard of people living in a shipping container, but I have heard of their use as underground bomb shelters.

    I got picked the other day for jury duty and hopefully we will be able to decide the case today. Besides raising my children I can not think of any other situation I have been in where my decision will have such a profound impact on someone’s life.

  11. 18 OletimerLin says:
    February 2, 2012 at 8:20 am

    I won’t be going to the Wayback tomorrow evening.

    Fair weather Christian camper!!!!!!!!!!

    Repaired it for you.

    The problem with the Wayback is that the ultimate destination is in a very flat flood plain at the bend of the river, which might result in standing water in places where I might be standing, too. The other is that with an overcast sky, full on dark comes a lot earlier, which makes it more likely that a hiker might come upon beasties at a time that is unexpected for both of them. Depending on the beastie, that could be a bad thing for either me or Scout The Wonder Dog.

  12. TT
    From any of your links showing a variety of dome homes, which style most resembles your own house?

  13. This is the closest I could get at this time. We don’t have a cupola, but we do have a skylight at the top and several triangle-shaped skylights in the roof. We have a full story “pony wall” at the bottom, instead of the usual 4-6 foot wall. That turns what is normally a high one story home into a high two-story home. Our dome was delivered (well, we picked up ourselves, which was interesting) in fully insulated panels, which were then put together like a very large jigsaw puzzle. There was a forest of 2x4s holding up the panels as they were lifted and then bolted into place. It was a flimsy structure until the top panels were installed, which then made it extremely strong. (I prayed a whole series of Hail Marys as those last pieces were put in. I was terrified that one of those extremely heavy panels would fall onto the scaffolding, bringing the whole thing – and all the people on it – tumbling down.) After the bolts were put in place, the insulation plugs were put into place and then we began the process of installing sheetrock.

    That was a challenge. Scaffolding had to be assembled and moved as the workers (Hubby, Handsome, and my “second son” usually) had to measure and cut each triangular piece individually and then lift it up, hold it in place, and hammer it in. The scaffolding had to stay up until we got the taping and floating done, and finally the painters came in.

    The weird acoustics started as soon as the first few panels were lifted into place. The 2x4s were rubbing against the insulation when the wind blew. I was standing downstairs, and I kept looking over my shoulder, trying to figure out where the weird sound was coming from. I finally realized it was “bouncing” from the panels above me. I was surprised, given that most of the roof still hadn’t been place and was wide open.

  14. I could hardly listen to this.

    He wasn’t interested in hearing from the candidate. This radio jock had his own agenda, as you can tell by the crawls on the screen. And then he gets after her because she wants to pass legislation when he claims it’s a “people/cultural” problem? Could he be part of that cultural problem, with his wissin’ attitude?

    /spits

    No, let’s not have a civil discussion about issues. Just get your sellout black **** outta here.

    /spits some more

    Idjits. They come in all colors, shapes, sizes, and flavors.

  15. #23 TT
    Sorry, I can’t visualize what it looks like inside your dome. I looked up pony wall but couldn’t understand any of the explanations or definitions. Do the rooms on the outer perimeter have curved walls? Are there interior walls not up against the curvature? Is there a staircase and second floor?

  16. #25 – OMG that sad excuse for a radio “personality” hopefully works pro bono – He dern sure aint got no talent! (unless of course rectal orificiousness is now a “talent”)

  17. It’s radio. Entertainment.

    If he didn’t have an audience, he’d be gone. Radio stations are too expensive to own and operate to have non-revenue producing programs.

    That he has enough of an audience speaks volumes about the sad state of affairs in that station’s market.

  18. If he didn’t have an audience, he’d be gone. Radio stations are too expensive to own and operate to have non-revenue producing programs.

    Unless you’re PBS or Pacifica.

  19. Pacifica gets most of its money from donations. Not sure if they get any gummint support or not. They get big bux from lefty orgs. I can get to the post TT linked to here t work, so I don’t know what radio station its from.

  20. Good afternoon Hamsters. Misty 67 at 6, everything bathed in air you can wear. No shadow seen by anything sticking up out of the ground, and overcast hangs around all day. Six more weeks of winter by the calendar and by the Sun is the result.

    Mara wasn’t waiting excpectantly at her feed box and looked droopy at breakfast and also was breathing too rapidly. Colic strongly suspected, vet called at 6:30, and we gave medication while awaiting his arrival. Removed all but a handful of her breakfast, and a bit later she ate a little. Got out our stethoscope to listen for gut sounds, but it was quiet in there, which reinforced the wisdom of having the vet on the way. He arrived shortly before 7, by which time she was more comfortable but not well. After his ministrations she perked up and looked much brighter. Out in the paddock she went and pretty much grazed nonstop for a couple of hours then out in the pasture with Contessa and Cameo. She seems to be fine and fortunately it must have been a minor tummy ache. Still watching her carefully, and she’s still grazing as if she hadn’t eaten in a week. Thank you, Lord and St. Francis. :)

  21. Adee, glad your horse has perked up, it is very alarming to have a loved creature suddenly not feeling well. No matter how many knees they have.

  22. Well;

    It appears that Thaddeus Matthews used to work for a radio station that was concerned about making a profit, so much so that they let him go.

    For controversial blogger and radio host Thaddeus Matthews, Friday was like the famous Ray Charles recording. His boss at AM 990 KWAN, told him to “Hit the Road, Jack.”

    “On Friday the General Manager George Bryant, came into the station after my show, told me get out of his building, that my show was being terminated.”

    Within hours, matthews said he learned his replacement in the coveted 4pm – 7pm slot would be his radio arch rival, Ben Ferguson. Ferguson, who Matthews said he dominated in the recent radio ratings, was let go by AM 600 WREC.

    snip

    Matthews is not good with his old station either, claiming white Republicans who hate him pressured management to kick him off the air.

    That Ray Charles song tells Jack to hit the road and don’t come back no more. Thaddeus Matthews is no Jack. he’s filing a half million dollar suit against AM 990.

    The Ben Ferguson Show can now be heard 4pm – 7pm on AM 990.

    Thaddeus Matthews said he will continue to maintain his blog and plans to launch a new radio station, AM 1180 WPLX, within the next 30 days.

    Here’s the website for WPLX

    Apparently it is following the bidness model of Pacifica, at least to the point where they broadcast blues most of the day. The only other show listed is the Thaddeus Matthews show.

    He either has a lot of money he’s willing to throw away, or running his radio station doesn’t cost as much money as running a real one does.

  23. I’ve uploaded some of our dome pictures here. There are various stages of construction shown. You can see how the dome was put together, and what it looked like after it was constructed.

    Yes, that’s the Hubby planting a flag on top of the dome.

  24. Yes, that’s the Hubby planting a flag on top of the dome.

    Where’s the Christmas tree? Last beam always has a flag and a Christmas tree.

  25. Well, the wait is over.

    Donald Trump endorsed Mitt Romney for president Thursday, saying he’s impressed by the Republican candidate’s debate prowess and believes he could easily beat President Obama in November.

    “Mitt is tough. He’s smart. He’s sharp. He’s not going to allow bad things to continue to happen to this country that we all love,” Trump said in Las Vegas, telling the candidate to “go out and get ‘em

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/02/02/trump-plans-to-endorse-romney-sources-say/#ixzz1lGIaX37x

  26. It’s not clear whether the endorsement can yield a bump for Romney. A Fox News poll last month suggested the reality TV star and businessman could do a candidate more harm than good.

    In the poll, 27 percent said his endorsement would make them less likely to support a candidate. Only 10 percent said Trump’s support would make them more likely to vote for a candidate. For most people, the endorsement would make no difference.

  27. I would agree with the majority. People make their choices for a variety of reasons. The Donald’s reasons for supporting Romney – or anyone, would likely differ from mine.

  28. One really, really, REALLY rich guy is endorsing another really, really, REALLY rich guy.

    Who’da thunk it?

  29. #33 mharpher42

    Thank you for the kind thoughts. Mara seems to be back to her normal state and has been grazing all afternoon, with one communal nap under a tree with Contessa and Cameo. The wild swings in weather lately, going from cold and windy, then to mugly, warm. and rainy, back to cold with another front that also brings storms is prime colic weather. The horse vets have been really busy lately treating colics, and we rescheduled a routine barn call a couple of weeks ago because our clinic had an emergency surgery come up.

  30. 36 TT
    Wow, that is amazing! Love the shot of the “man on the mountain”! It looks like a lot of the house is rectangulars adjacent to the dome, not inside of it. Are there multiple rooms inside the dome? Are there any “pony walls” in the pix?

    I’ll look at this more tomorrow, I have to leave soon for a meeting. (No, it’s not a 12-step meeting.)

  31. Tedtam, thank you for taking time to dig out pictures of your home. It looks lovely, and all the work you put into building it has paid off at last. Presume you didn’t keep track of the hours it took…. That would be simply exhausting in itself. :)

  32. #48 mharper

    Wow, that is amazing! Love the shot of the “man on the mountain”! It looks like a lot of the house is rectangulars adjacent to the dome, not inside of it. Are there multiple rooms inside the dome? Are there any “pony walls” in the pix?

    The neat thing about the dome is that there are no walls required within the structure. All of the load bearing walls are the “narrow” pieces at the bottom of the dome itself, believe it or not. As long as we don’t mess with those pieces, we could even hang a second floor from the ceiling. The guy who sold us the dome did just that in his house.

    It is open concept, so you can can see the livingroom, kitching, and dining room from the front entrance. I insisted on big front and back porches, and we needed extensions from the dome to make room for these, to add some space to the living area, and to accommodate the dining room. Lovely and Handsome have bedrooms downstairs, and the master suite takes up most of the upstairs, with a small room between the bedroom and the storage/office area over the carport. Seen from the air, it looks kind of like a big octopus with only four arms. We could knock out every wall inside and the house would be fine.

    In case of tornado or hurricane, the extensions would be the first to go. Domes do quite well during high wind events. The manufacturer showed us pictures of the Galveston shoreline after Alicia came through, and you could see the remains of the beach houses: stilts, stilts, stilts, DOME, stilts, ….. The only dome (which he built for the owner) on the beach was still intact, sustaining real damage from a post that punctured the skin but little other damage to the structure.

  33. Sarge #6;

    but such economics are difficult to explain to Independents and low information voters

    The first time you said “low inform[ed] voters” you did so in away to attack supporting Romney. Now you use it to attack those who use that argument against conservatives?

  34. Howdy Y’all! I got to play golf today and it was fun. We had wind, rain and a little sun but it was still comfortable to play in shorts, yeah these Houston winters are a real beyotch:>) Sarge, I do not know if I have ever had your email
    r
    cue
    nod
    stoopid at symbol
    attdotnet

  35. #54 TT: The governor, Scott Walker, needs to make sure that each and every signature is verified. The rejects need to be posted and counted so that there is no hand wringing later when the threshold for the required number of signatures for a recall is not met.
    As we all are aware, libs, by their very nature, are not trustworthy and are amoral. For a lib to lie to further the cause of liberalism is not seen by libs as a negative. We KNOW that they will lie, cheat and steal to get what they want, to further their agenda so we should take precautions against such behavior.

  36. #56 TT: One of the really cool things about bio-remediation is that once all the nasty stuff is gone, the bacteria usually die off. It really is the best way to rid our environment of the nasty stuff that plagues us.

  37. #6;

    Romney will be running against the first black President of the United States while he comes from a church that did not see black people as eligible members until 1978.

    A slight but significant correction on this. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has NEVER considered blacks to one anything less than fully eligible members in the pure sense of membership in the LDS Church. The history of blacks in the LDS Church is as follows. Joseph Smith did indeed ordain blacks to the priesthood and even into leadership position which require priesthood authority.

    Under Brigham young blacks were no longer allowed to receive the priesthood or certain ordinances such as found in temple services. As to why this happens it is my understanding that nobody knows for sure but rest assured many have their theories. I have spoken to my parents about this issue since they were full adults when they joined the LDS faith and were adults when the revelation came that all worthy male members may receive the priesthood. They express great rejoice (as have many others which I have spoken to when they too remember this revelation given).

    Although I have no doubt in the truthfulness of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints being ther restored Church of Jesus Christ on earth there is a part of me troubled by this period which blacks could not receive the priesthood. I have pondered much on the subject and I have concluded that though I may never (nor the world) know the full background of the reason behind the priesthood ban I do think that there are parts which can be placed together to get a decent picture as to the background of events that unfolded regarding the ban and the restoration of allowing all worthy male members to receive it.

    As I said, it is not known for certain why Brigham Young instituted the ban. There is no official declaration by him or by the LDS Church. Some speculate it has to do with doctrines found in the book of Abraham where Cain and his decedents were cursed to not have the priesthood for killing Abel and then with “dark skin” for his protection against those who may seek to kill him in self-righteous (thus unholy) justification. Also there is the curse of Ham where the said descendent of Abraham married an Egyptian and thus carried the curse of Cain. (These are two separate doctrines but many in our modern day thinking lump the two together). My main reason to reject this line of thinking is that the person who translated the book of Abraham, Joseph Smith, did ordain blacks to the priesthood as well as to leadership positions within the priesthood. I think if there was anyone who understood the doctrines of the Book of Abraham, it was Joseph smith.

    By the time the Saints settled into Utah there began to be confusion as to whether or not Joseph Smith rescinded the priesthood given to blacks. One black in particular, Elijah Abel, who was ordained and elder inthe LDS church as well as to the leadership position of “Seventy” (a position I do not think exists any longer – it is not the same as today’s “Quorum of the Seventy” – and I’m not sure as to its exact function but it was a leadership position in the Church and required the priesthood), and even taught and baptized another person into the LDS faith, was held up as an example of Smith rescinding the priesthood ordination and leadership position. There is no record whatsoever of this rescinding happening that I am aware of, only oral witness, and even there nothing that I could classify as “solid” or “reliable”. Furthermore, some of Abel’s descendants were given the priesthood. The LDS believe in living revelation. That just as in times of old, revelation is needed to govern the Gospel of Jesus Christ. When this matter was taken to the Lord the Lord was silent in response and this as well as the fact that over time more and more LDS leaders came to believe that Joseph Smith did rescind the priesthood, the priesthood ban remained intact. There are certain statements from LDS leaders that tge ban is under the will of God but according to the sources I have read, this most likely means that since the Lord was silent it was interpreted that the Lord permitted the ban to continue. Again, I would like to stress that there is no record of any explicit reason why the priesthood was banned from blacks.

    For a really good summary of blacks in the LDS Church, I recommend visiting Blacklds.org . For an excellent summary of blacks and the priesthood, here it is:

    1836: In March, Elijah Abel, a black man, is ordained to the office of Elder.
    1836: In December, Elijah Abel, is ordained to the office of Seventy.
    1844: Walker Lewis, a black man, is ordained to the office of Elder.
    1846: William McCary, a black man, is ordained to the office of Elder.
    1900: Enoch Abel, the son of Elijah Abel, is ordained to the office of Elder.
    1935: Elijah Abel, grandson of Elijah Abel, is ordained to the office of Elder.
    1958: All black Melanesians (Fijians) are given the priesthood (blacks in the Philippines even earlier)
    1978: Revelation on Priesthood gives the priesthood to all worthy men regardless of color.
    1990: Helvecio Martins becomes first black General Authority Seventy.
    Additional blacks were ordained in the early years of the church.

    Blacks and the Priesthood

    For a more detailed outline of blacks and the priesthood as well as blacks in America, visit, Black History Timeline

    What I recommend more than anything else is to read a first-hand account of when the revelation was given in 1978 that the priesthood will be given to all worthy male members. This was perhaps one of the most dramatic moments of revelation ever given in the LDS Church. from my understanding, normally the President of the Church, who is also prophet, seer, and revelator and the only one with all the keys of the priesthood to govern the affairs of the Church, receives a revelation, shares it with members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles which they then ponder and pray and through the Spirit of God, determines that the revelation is true and if from there they desire to make it official doctrine it is passed along to other priesthood leaders and then to the general membership thus allowing all the members to open their minds and hearts to the will of God and through the Holy Spirit receive a confirmation of its truth. After a sustaining vote on all these levels (it must be unanimous among the President, his counselors (normally two), and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles), it becomes official LDS doctrine and standard.

    What makes the revelation regarding blacks and the priesthood unique and dramatic is how the revelation was given. President Spencer W. Kimball commissioned the First Presidency (the Prophet and counselors) to learn as much as they could about Joseph Smith and the priesthood with respect to blacks receiving it and if it was rescinded. Together they all (15 of them) entered into the temple for prayer on the matter. The revelation came but not just to the Prophet. At this moment each and every one of them heard the voice of God and each and every one of them heard the exact same words. Revelation is almost never given in this way. I think it was to assure in no uncertain terms that it was the will of God for all males who are worthy to receive the priesthood. For a first-hand account of this event read, Official Declaration 2, specifically under Thoughts and Events Leading up to the Declaration.

    I wish I could give exact reasons for the priesthood ban but I can’t. Blacks are as much the children of God as whites. There are definitely those who will disagree with me from my own faith. That is fine with me. I do not suppose I know all the answers and I enjoy learning from others as well. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints never taught anything contrary to this. As for this being a political issue there’s a couple of things on Romney’s side. First is that this can so very easily be pictured to the American people as a political issue. Just point to Harry Reid who is a member of the exact same faith as Mitt Romney. Using Reid as a shield may prove that Reid has some political use after all. Was his religion ever used against him to portray him as a racist? Second is Obama’s own religion of 20+ years. It is still racist and anti-Semitic. This will help with the Jewish vote for Romney.

    I do not fear this issue being brought up and in some ways I say, “bring it on”. I’ll be glad to help them replace the nation’s first black president with the nation’s first Mormon president this November.

    If anyone here thnks they will encounter an “ill informed” voter (that means “stupid” voter) on the issue of blacks and the priesthood and want to learn more, then bookmark this post and link it to them.

  38. What should be my #59 post is currently waiting moderation most likely due to the number of links. Hold on to your hats mharper. ;)

  39. Tedtam,
    Did you encounter any problems having your home appraised or insured? I know a few years ago my sister was looking to purchase an A-frame house and she ran into both of those issues. It was not worth the hassle for her so she went with a “normal” house.

  40. The first time you said “low inform[ed] voters” you did so in away to attack supporting Romney. Now you use it to attack those who use that argument against conservatives?

    I use the term to attack no one, not today, not ever. It is a well accepted term in Poltical Science as any of those articles I linked to In Google Scholar would explain to you. It is merely a descriptive term that should threaten nobody. I first learned the term in a discussion on a thread at AoSHQ and have encountered it in many other discussions in other forums and in many articles I have read.

    Here pollster Mark Blumernthal discusses “low information voters.”

    I can answer part of that question. Downscale voters — those with less education and lower incomes — are absolutely “low information voters” as compared to their more upscale brethren. That finding has been a consistent theme of 40 or 50 years of political survey research and was vividly reaffirmed by the updated political knowledge study released by the Pew Research Center last year. Here is a slightly condensed version of a table from that report showing that lower income and less well educated Americans are by far the least informed on an index based on 23 questions of political knowledge:

    (you’ll need to look at the chart at the link for the rest)

    Another discussion can be found here.

    Study shows that low-information voters are most likely to be swayed by candidates’ appearances
    July 18, 2011 by Peter Dizikes

    The looks of political candidates are a key factor influencing voters, a phenomenon identified by a number of scholars in recent years. Now, a new study by MIT political scientists adds to this body of research by detailing which types of citizens are most influenced by candidate appearances, and why: The tendency is most prevalent among low-information voters who watch a lot of television.

    The term “low information voter” describes a type of individual who’s voting decision os based on a quantity of information that is low compared to most voters, and especially to folks like us who discuss politics on a daily basis. For that reason, anyone advocating for or against any candidate has to take them into account. Obama mad great use of the phenomenon to get people to vote for him based on the promise of Hope and Change and little else. They can be easily swayed by apppeals to emotion rather than reason, and are the most susceptible to buzz words and negative first impressions.

  41. We had to get a loan against one of our rental properties to start building. We are currently uninsured, as we are officially “under construction”. HCAD seems to have no problems appraising our place.

  42. Sarge;

    I use the term to attack no one, not today, not ever.

    I do suppose I should have said to “oppose” support Romney but that now you used that term to “oppose” supporting a conservative candidate.

    Political Science or not, “low informed voters” translates to “stupid” voters.

    The looks of political candidates are a key factor influencing voters

    See, that’s stupidity. But, ironically, that should give Romney a leg up.

    See. ;)

  43. The other day I said that Mormon wives (only one per husband, thank you very much :) ) get pregnant in groups. Tonight Little sister called to congraduate us on the pregnancy and to inform Mrs. Darren that she’s pregnant aswell. Whoohoo, way ta’ go, Lil’ Sis!!!

    My brain is reworking itself from, “you’re all done with diapers” to “you’re gonna be a dad again!”. And that’s the way it should be.

    Babies rule!!!

  44. #60 Darren

    Hold on to your hats mharper.

    How many hats do you think I wear? I don’t think I asked anything about blacks in LDS anyway.

  45. I do suppose I should have said to “oppose” support Romney but that now you used that term to “oppose” supporting a conservative candidate.

    I merely pointed out one of the pitfalls that stand in the way of a Romney win come November should he become the Candidate. Its my opinion that the phrases “Cayman Island Investments” and “Swiss bank accounts”, for instance, are well known to low information voters, but they hold a negative connotation because they have generally heard them in movies and television shows about drug dealers, unscrupulous con-men, or evil corporations.

    Each candidate will have problems with low information voters, and each candidate will attempt to take advantage of them. Romney’s attack on Gingrich, for example, took advantage of the general lack of information regarding his exoneration of ethics charges, and Gingrich’s attack on Bain relied heavily on the difficulty understanding economics that low information voters generally display.

    You can dismiss them as stupid if you like, but we have no laws that keep stupid people from voting, and they should be taken into account in any calculus involving who has the best chance of beating Obama.

  46. US Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg to Egyptians: Look to the Constitutions of South Africa or Canada, Not to the US Constitution

    You should certainly be aided by all the constitutional writing that has gone on since the end of World War II. I will not look to the US Constitution if I were writing a constitution in 2012. I might look at the constitution of South Africa…Canada has a charter of rights and freedoms..look to the European convention of human rights.

    I can’t wait until President Romney makes a new appointment to replace this judge and for a Republican Senate to confirm that appointment.

  47. You can dismiss them as stupid if you like

    They are stupid and efforts must be made to educate them. Don’t embrace their existence by scaring off support for a candidate who won’t meet their low standards and expectations. Stand up and challenge these stupid people to elevate themselves.

    but we have no laws that keep stupid people from voting

    We used to allow only property owners to vote. And, no, I do nt wish to return to that standard but I do very much believe in the pricple behind it. That those who vote should have a vested interest in the well-being of their country. Voting based on looks is superficial and vain.

  48. #69 Sarge
    Well stated. I never sensed any denigration in your use of “low information voters”. At one point, I think you said that was considered normal. Most people do despise politics, and discuss it mostly out of necessity & desperation.

  49. They are stupid and efforts must be made to educate them. Don’t embrace their existence by scaring off support for a candidate who won’t meet their low standards and expectations. Stand up and challenge these stupid people to elevate themselves.

    Darren;

    Scroll back up and do a word count on your explanation of LDS’ racial history. While it is entirely true, valid, and cogent, do you really think that low information voters will take the time to read it or anything like it, especially when their current impression of the religion comes from a cable TV show, numerous jokes about multiple wives, and discussions of magic underwear? Do you really think you can counter 30 second TV ads and watercooler discussions with such a long explanation? Do you really think you can condense it down enough to actually change their minds?

    These are people who were convinced to vote for Hope and Change, think the Clinton Impeachment was about sex, and that the Iraq war was illegal. They are out there and they vote.

  50. Mittens explains his poor people comments:

    Dear American People:

    Yesterday, comments I made about poor people made me look terrible. This always seems to happen when I say what I really believe.

    The fact is, I do care about poor people. That’s because I’m poor myself, when you compare me to Mark Zuckerberg.

    According to most projections, Facebook’s IPO should net Mr. Zuckerberg a personal fortune of $28 billion. I couldn’t make a pile of dough-re-mi like that even if I fired people twenty-four hours a day.

    Now, let’s take a look at Mitt Romney’s net worth: a measly $200 million. Now do you see why I consider myself poor? Compared to Mark Zuckerberg, Mitt Romney is practically a crack whore.

    Now, I’m not going to sit here and envy a rich person like Mark Zuckerberg. That’s exactly what President Obama wants poor people like me to do. Mark Zuckerberg made his money fair and square, by creating useful products like imaginary sheep and angry birds. Say what you will about Facebook, it has totally revolutionized the way we waste our lives.

    The fact is, if you’re poor in America, you should do what Mark Zuckerberg did: create a social network. I’ve just started my own, called TwoFaceBook. With TwoFaceBook, your profile doesn’t stay the same for more than two seconds.

    In closing, there’s one more reason I don’t worry about poor people. They have Groupons.

    Vote for me,

    Mitt Romney

  51. Sarge;

    While it is entirely true, valid, and cogent, do you really think that low information voters will take the time to read it or anything like it, especially when their current impression of the religion comes from a cable TV show, numerous jokes about multiple wives, and discussions of magic underwear?

    The very reason I took the time to talk about a part of LDS history in a clear and cogent way is that now anyone who would like to learn aobut it may do so. You are now in a position to point ot a post which discusses a topic whic as you said will come up in the future of the campaign. If people do not wantto read about the topic, they won’t, but, if they do, right there is one simple post you can link them to. “Oh yeah, there’s this blogger guy I know who said something informative about blacks and the priesthood. Since you brought the topic up I would recommend you read a post he made.” That’s one way both you and I can educate others. If, however, we decide to do nothing, if, for example, I didn’t make that post, then it will be that much more difficult to educate others.

    Do you really think you can counter 30 second TV ads and watercooler discussions with such a long explanation?

    One great advantage of reading into a long and somewhat detailed explanation is that you can take parts of it and apply it to 30 second remarks around a watercooler. “Hey, didn’t mormons treat blacks as inferior? Aren’t they racist?” “Blacks couldn’t hold the priesthood but the Mormon Church never thought of blacks as inferior as far as I know.” Anymore information people seek, refer them to that post and tothis blog. I’d be more than happy to discuss it.

    That’s how this works, Sarge. When people are low informed, then inform them. You’ve done so yourself with Shamaal on more than one ocassion on ecomonics during Shamaal’s relatively recent entrance on this website. I’ve done so a lot on LDS issues here, on LST, and on a few other websites. That’s how it works.

    I simply do not understand your opposition to Romney based on voters being too ignorant to vote for them.

    Do you really think you can condense it down enough to actually change their minds?

    The irony is that I never expect to change anyone’s mind. I simply want to stand for what i think is right and let people decide for themselves.

    These are people who were convinced to vote for Hope and Change, think the Clinton Impeachment was about sex, and that the Iraq war was illegal. They are out there and they vote.

    There’s also one person who wants ot vote for anyone but Romney but even more who want to get Obama out of office. Said deperation will compell people to gravitate towards getting informed. Tea partiers are a prime example of that.

  52. Izzit Friday yet?
    Babies drool, and are screaming dirty diaper factories. That being said, I can’t keep my hands off of them, I absolutely love to hold babies it has a real calming influence on me. The real joy comes from a gentle tickle and you see the twinkle in their eyes – priceless.

  53. That’s how this works, Sarge. When people are low informed, then inform them. You’ve done so yourself with Shamaal on more than one ocassion on ecomonics during Shamaal’s relatively recent entrance on this website.

    Darren;
    That is possibly the best example you could give to illustrate my point.

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