Thursday Non-Traditional Marriage Open Comments

Who didn’t see this coming? A lawsuit has been filed in Utah Federal court asking the judge to block enforcement of Utah’s long-standing law prohibiting polygamy. The plaintiff, Mr. Kody Brown, is the father of the family featured on the reality tv show Sister Wives.

“By criminalizing religious-based plural families and intimate relationships under the criminal bigamy law, Utah officials prosecute private conduct between consenting adults,” the lawsuit says.

Yep, a blind man could see this coming a mile away.

The lawsuit is not demanding that states recognize polygamous marriage. Instead, the lawsuit builds on a 2003 United States Supreme Court decision, Lawrence v. Texas, which struck down state sodomy laws as unconstitutional intrusions on the “intimate conduct” of consenting adults. It will ask the federal courts to tell states that they cannot punish polygamists for their own “intimate conduct” so long as they are not breaking other laws, like those regarding child abuse, incest or seeking multiple marriage licenses.

Oh, yeah. I predict “marriages” that include barnyard animals in our lifetimes.

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217 Responses to Thursday Non-Traditional Marriage Open Comments

  1. 1 El Gordo says:

    Hey, I’ve got an idea. Why don’t we just leave the government out of the marriage discussion all together and leave it to the religions to define whatever meets their standards. Anyone could be married to anyone or anything they wanted, no need for any government recognition. All parties (probably should limit it to homo sapiens) to a marriage remain individuals in the government’s eyes – do away with tax deductions, asset transfers, etc. based on lineage and keep it all on a contractual basis. Just like the wild, wild, west of old. Buy, sell, trade, rent, whatever. Government is everybody’s daddy now anyway, so just set a a donor bank with blow up dolls and go for it.

    Given that the descendants of European heritage are about gone anyway, what difference does it make?

  2. 2 fat albert says:

    The traditional family is the foundational basis for a stable civilization and culture. As our society eschews that foundation we will find less stability, less civil behavior and less culture.

    Most of the societal problems that we currently face: the decline in education and civility, the pandemonium on the border, our budget woes, and endless others, can be traced, either directly or indirectly, to the decline in the basic family structure.

  3. 3 El Gordo says:

    Fat 1 to Fat 2: I couldn’t agree more with your comments. But I believe that the root cause of the decline in the family structure is the result, intended or otherwise, of government involvement and intrusion into the family life and structure.

    There is nothing going on today any different than has been going on forever in human history. As harsh as some of the things we hear about may be, they are unfortunately not unique to our times. As the government has become involved in all its “do good” project to help the downtrodden, the more the family unit has fallen apart. Of course, that leads to more disruption and less civility, which naturally leads to even more government involvement. It’s doomed to collapse at some point, then it will be back to tribal rules where the chief takes all the young girls prior to marriage, keeps the women doing women’s work, and having the men hunting, drinking beer, and watching the Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders.

  4. 4 El Gordo says:

    If Obama decided not to pay socialized security checks on August 3 I could not wait to be in DC on August 4. That would be some show to behold, and I don’t think it would be very PC either.

  5. 5 GJT says:

    Anyone could be married to anyone or anything they wanted, no need for any government recognition. All parties (probably should limit it to homo sapiens) ……

    See, it will always come down to a line drawn somewhere. I’m with good where it it is now.

  6. 6 GJT says:

    Oh, yeah. I predict “marriages” that include barnyard animals in our lifetimes.

    …..and a push for NAMBLA into the mainstream. The GLBT community being the perfect home.

  7. 7 Sarge says:

    This is why I don’t want to see Rick Perry get into the race.

    Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN) the strong frontrunner in the first contest of the Republican 2012 presidential nomination race? Believe it, baby.

    A new poll of likely caucus goers in Iowa by the Republican-leaning Magellan Strategies shows Bachmann with 29% of the vote. Next place finisher Mitt Romney has 16%. The Magellan field did not include Jon Huntsman, who is skipping Iowa, or the (so far) non-running Sarah Palin, Rudy Giuliani or Rick Perry.

    Other polling has shown the race closer, too. The Des Moines Register poll showed Bachmann running an extremely close second to Romney last month. A recent American Research Group poll that showed Bachmann with only a slight lead over Romney in a field that did include those other names.

    Perry would compete directly with Bachman for votes, thus diluting the Conservative, especially Tea Party, vote. The end result would be narrow victories for Romney in several primary states where vote totals for Perry and Bachman combined would be more than those garnered by Romney.

    Of course, this would be the exact strategy Perry would want to take if his goal is Veep in a Romney administration. Many in the Republican Establishment like the idea of an “Austin to Boston” ticket, replicating the JFK/LBJ strategy. Its madness and won’t bring about the kind of change we actually need in this country, but a lot of Establishment Republicans are getting nervous about the Tea Party (we didn’t go away after the last election like we were supposed to) and are willing to do almost anything to keep thier power brokers in places where they can broker power.

  8. 8 Texpat says:

    With the U.S. Supreme Court’s decision last month overturning anti-sodomy laws, the Court has consequently provided two powerful precedents for securing the next civil rights battle, “polygamy rights.”

    Romer v. Evans, in 1996, established that laws cannot “impermissably target” a class of individuals. This recent Lawrence v. Texas decision establishes a “right to privacy” for freely-consenting adults. These two precedents, together, make anti-polygamy laws unconstitutional.

    Such analysis comes out of U.S. Justice Antonin Scalia’s specific dissents in both decisions.

    Antonin Scalia is quoted in the following from his Lawrence v Texas dissent:

    In his Dissent, Justice Scalia wrote, “State laws against bigamy, same-sex marriage, adult incest, prostitution, masturbation, adultery, fornication, bestiality, and obscenity are likewise sustainable only in light of Bowers’ validation of laws based on moral choices. Every single one of these laws is called into question by today’s decision; the Court makes no effort to cabin the scope of its decision to exclude them from its holding.”

    And where are these two quotes to be found ?

    On Pro-Polygamy.com, of course, from July 03, 2003 which begins thus:

    With the U.S. Supreme Court’s decision last month overturning anti-sodomy laws, the Court has consequently provided two powerful precedents for securing the next civil rights battle, “polygamy rights.”

    Romer v. Evans, in 1996, established that laws cannot “impermissably target” a class of individuals. This recent Lawrence v. Texas decision establishes a “right to privacy” for freely-consenting adults. These two precedents, together, make anti-polygamy laws unconstitutional.

    Such analysis comes out of U.S. Justice Antonin Scalia’s specific dissents in both decisions.

  9. 9 Lawrence says:

    Head-to-head, One tRick Perry loses to Obama.

    Next.

  10. 10 Dooood says:

    Here is an interesting interactive site that shows that it is entirely possible for the federal government to not default on interest payments, maintain SS / Medicare / Medicaid payments, and maintain active duty military payments without raising the debt ceiling at all. Yes it will force some tough choices on what not to fund. Too bad.

  11. 11 Darren says:

    I totally agree with wagonburner. With the Supreme court ruling against sodomy, the door is open up for legal challenges to many forms of, let’s say, marital discrimination. Same goes for any future (and past) rulings against laws designed to recognize marriage between one man and one woman.

    Polygamy was always a point of contention in Utah’s history and its attempt to become a state of the Union. Besides that, federal laws prohibiting polygamy were passed and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints did seek legal means to counteract these laws. I soon need to leave for a training but if I’m not mistaken the Supreme Court ruled that laws outlawing polygamy are legal and using religious-based protection against these laws do not apply. As I recall this Supreme Court decision was pivitol to the LDS Church and its practice of polygamy. Believing in living revelation the matter was taken to the lord and the revelation was given on different occasions to not only stop the practice of initiating polygamous marriage but to anul all existing ones as well. This was no small deal. Mrs. Darren was 19 when she and I got married. Imagine any declaration anywhere prohibiting that practice and making that prohibition retroactive. Oh, the contention that could ensue.

    So, my main point is that I do believe the Supreme Court already ruled against using religion to justify the practice of polygamy. This should more than suffice to kill Mr. Kody Brown’s federal lawsuit to block Utah’s law prohibiting polygamy.

  12. 12 Darren says:

    texpat #8;

    In his Dissent, Justice Scalia wrote, “State laws against bigamy, same-sex marriage, adult incest, prostitution, masturbation, adultery, fornication, bestiality, and obscenity are likewise sustainable only in light of Bowers’ validation of laws based on moral choices. Every single one of these laws is called into question by today’s decision; the Court makes no effort to cabin the scope of its decision to exclude them from its holding.”

    this seems to happen a lot when the Supreme Court does not carefully word its decisions. When they rule “from the bench” so much subsequent consequences follow. Scalia clearly saw this in Lawrence v. Texas.

  13. 13 Adee says:

    Good morning Hamsters. A summer benign 74 at 6 somewhat comfortable humidity until the Sun gets higher. Rain dance on again today.

    Mr. Justice Scalia’s prediction in his dissent comes true. What a surprise. Anybody wanna bet there will be at least one amicus curiae brief from an Islamic group? :) Next gotta work on the divorce laws, wherein the husband can rotate three times saying “I divorce you” and that is that. But the divorce lawyers will fight such an arrangement.

  14. 14 Simple Simon says:

    Having Five Wives is its own punishment !!

    Think about when they get their cycles sync’ed. How would you like
    to come home to five PMS’ed wives ready to eat small live mammals.

    The Horror! The Horror!

    Then again…it would be a great time to own a beer joint or ice house.

    Simple

  15. 15 Hamous says:

    I know I’m simple-minded when it comes to economics but I’m having a hard time understanding how raising the debt ceiling is a good thing in any way, shape, or form.

    Let’s say I have a mortgage, car payment, utilities, insurance, groceries, private school for four kids, property tax bills, and a sweet $75,000/year vacation home that all total $150,000/year but I only make $75,000/year. Can I walk into my bank and successfully demand they give me a $75,000/year line of credit (which I have no foreseeable means of ever paying back) so I can keep my sweet vacation home? What parallel universe are our leaders from?

  16. 16 Dooood says:

    I know I’m simple-minded when it comes to economics but I’m having a hard time understanding how raising the debt ceiling is a good thing in any way, shape, or form.

    Recognizing mathematical reality is not simple-minded, and that’s exactly what you’re doing. Hey, you have a college degree, and I know full well that your degree placed an emphasis on mathematics. The truth of the matter is though, the math involved here is stuff we learned in high school at the latest.

    Graph two lines where one has a positive slope greater than the positive slope of the other. X axis is time, Y axis is $. Will those two lines ever meet without the slope of one or both changing? Of course not.

    In the graph I just described, the line with the lesser slope is government revenue, the line with the greater slope is government spending. It’s really just that simple and you can’t spend more than you make forever. Granted, you can play games for a while and limp it along; similar to making only the minimum payment on your credit card. But eventually the game ends. We are now well toward the end of the game. Like Wagonburner said the other day, that which can’t continue forever won’t. There is no amount of finesse or political posturing that will change this.

  17. 17 mharper42 says:

    #16 Doooooood

    Hey, you have a college degree

    What? I thought it was established that our Hammy dropped out of Florida school system in the 5th grade. I don’t know what to believe any more. :)

  18. 18 Hamous says:

    I think I’ll go into the mustard-growing business.

  19. 19 mharper42 says:

    Not in South East Texas you won’t.

  20. 20 Dooood says:

    I think I’ll go into the mustard-growing business.

    Considering that mustard is the only suitable condiment for a hot dog, I would say you could definitely make worse career choices.

    :smile:

  21. 21 Hamous says:

    What? I thought it was established that our Hammy dropped out of Florida school system in the 5th grade.

    It was 3rd grade. A self-deprecating rumor created to ridicule some commenters who have a penchant for treating other commenters as imbeciles.

  22. 22 mharper42 says:

    #21 Hammy

    treating other commenters as imbeciles

    Who would do such a thing? One of the things I like best about The Couch is how everyone is in basic agreement about, well, the basics — and there is never any rancor or discord.

  23. 23 Bonecrusher says:

    Corpulenti #1, 2: I kind of like the idea of removing the marriage penalty on the tax side, as well as the SS side. Imagine this; both the man and woman, married to each other, work full time jobs, but one is only entitled to collect 1/2 of the other’s (whichever is greater) SS payments, because they are married*(&%$*, did they get a break and only make one pay 1/2 the tax???He!! no. As I see it the big deals are inheritance, child support, divorce, next of kin medical issues. All of those issues can be handled very simply with a 1 or 2 page contractual document that gets filed with the state, or just kept in a safe at home. Treat each and every person as an individual and remove all group/class protections and/or penalties.
    This in no way implies that I favor any weakening of the institution of marriage. Traditional monogamous marriage is the strongest foundational stone in building a robust civilization, if you weaken that foundation, you weaken everything you attempt to build on it.

  24. 24 Bonecrusher says:

    Further to my #23 above, our current tax scheme is beyond absurd; it would not be possible to air a Twilight Zone episode on it as it is simply “too far out there” to be believable. As our tax code has been used for destructive purposes and is inherently destructive ( a progressive tax punishes achievement as you are penalized for each additional dollar you earn) the whole thing needs to be scrapped and replaced for one that generates the most revenue to the govt while at the same time causing the least pain for the people. That tax is the National Retail Sales Tax or Fair Tax. Of course the Demo-Nazi-terd-nozzles will scream and fight this as it takes away a lot of their power.

  25. 25 Bonecrusher says:

    So Dingy Harry Hemorrhoid says that Eric Cantor is acting “childishly” right after PF storms out of the meeting?? The comments at the end are devastating.

  26. 26 Super Dave says:

    Well this is neat; Federal® Ammunition Introduces Pink Top Gun® Shotshells to Support Breast Cancer Research
    Mornin’ Gang,….do I dare scroll up? :wink:

  27. 27 Hamous says:

    More “non-traditional marriage” news:

    An attorney for a gay Costa Rican immigrant married to a U.S. citizen plans to ask a Houston judge on Thursday to halt deportation proceedings while the courts weigh the future of a federal law forbidding same-sex marriage.

    David Gonzalez, a 35-year-old accountant from Costa Rica who overstayed his tourist visa, is to appear before a Houston immigration judge Thursday morning, accompanied by his partner, Mario Ramirez, a U.S. citizen he married in California in 2008.

    “We are as normal as any other married couple,” said Gonzalez. “I see no reason why the government should discriminate against us. It’s unjust.”

    Normal? You’re here illegally. You’re not married. The government isn’t discriminating against you by deporting you.

    If the judge denies the request to close the case, Nechman said he is prepared to move ahead with an asylum claim on his client’s behalf. Gonzalez said he left Costa Rica in the spring of 2000 on a tourist visa to escape an abusive ex-lover who worked for the Costa Rican police.

    I don’t think you can be granted asylum because your homosexual ex-lover was a sadist.

  28. 28 Lawrence says:

    “there is never any rancor or discord”

    IWHarper69 must be partaking in the spirits of my name bastardization(big word I learned from Hamnous) for her.

    Hamnous got a college degree and only had to go to the 3rd grade? I thought I had the record with a 5th grade degree.

  29. 29 Hamous says:

    In Florida, 1st grade is elementary and middle school, 2nd grade is high school, 3rd grade is a bachelors degree.

  30. 30 Simple Simon says:

    25 Boney,

    Cantor is acting like a petulant child. The point of high level meetings is to work out the details, craft the best acceptable compromise, and develop support for the compromise within the ranks of both sides. Then one publishes the details and has a nice photo op on the Capitol steps and WH Rose garden.

    Openly passing around meeting notes before a deal is done only monkey-wrenches the process. This may be acceptable to those who want to tear down the government, but default will touch all of us.

    Simple

  31. 31 Lawrence says:

    Simplex, continuing on the same fiscal path with no material change will affect all of us too.

  32. 32 mharper42 says:

    #13 Adee

    Anybody wanna bet there will be at least one amicus curiae brief from an Islamic group?

    I remember seeing a news story in the last six months about polygamous Somalis in Minneapolis where the whole family including multiple wives and their children are all on welfare. I googled but couldn’t find that story. Here is a larger report of the same problem occurring throughout the western world.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/04/islamic-supremacists-move-west-collect-welfare-checks-practice-polygamy-plot-the-demise-of-their-hos.html

  33. 33 Hamous says:

    Cantor is acting like a petulant child.

    I’d say he’s the only one in the room acting like an adult. All the rest of them are just worried about their reelection.

  34. 34 fat albert says:

    #9 Lawrence:

    Life is so much more fun when you start the day deluded…….

  35. 36 Lawrence says:

    Fat, it was a poll posted on Drudge yesterday.

    Once again, who’s really deluded here?

    Huh?

  36. 37 Bonecrusher says:

    #30 Simple:

    Openly passing around meeting notes before a deal is done only monkey-wrenches the process

    You mean kind of like HOLDING A WISSIN PRESS CONFERENCE BEFORE THE MEETING and trying to badger and strong arm the other side to do something that is proven to be destructive to the economy? You mean like the POTUS insisting on calling everybody by their first name when everyone else refers to him (to his face) as Mr. President? The only way to fix the problem is to dramatically cut spending and grow the economy; you can not grow the economy AND raise taxes at the same time as those two are not mutually compatible. Each and every time tax rates have been cut there has been an increase in revenue to the treasury – a direct result of the economy growing by more than the tax cut. The end result is that the government gets a smaller percentage of a much bigger pie which yields more pie on the plate – it works every time.
    PF is the childish wiss-wad who refuses to recognize reality and is going to stick to his ideological guns even if that means drilling a hole in the bottom of our ship of state.

  37. 38 Lawrence says:

    Here it is at the Comical:

    http://blog.chron.com/txpotomac/2011/07/perry-watch-obama-would-trounce-rick-perry-in-a-national-match-up/

    Hey, hey, hey – what say you Fat Albert?

  38. 39 Simple Simon says:

    Lawerence and Hamous,

    I could not agree more that continuing on the path we are on is unacceptable.

    I am debt free and have been so since the late eighties. My Yellow-Dog Democrat father raised all of us to be frugal and to save, save, save.

    We will have to cut spending drastically. Spending cuts alone would have solved this problem a couple of decades ago, but that ship has sailed. Some measure of tax increase will be needed to square things.

    The leadership may end up doing this by closing loopholes in the code, which will allow the “R’s” to go home and say there were no “new” taxes.

  39. 40 Hamous says:

    He may well beat Jimmy Dick nationally. I still say no way in Texas.

  40. 41 Lawrence says:

    #40.

    I can taste that rich Italian spaghetti sauce even now!

  41. 42 Hamous says:

    At this time in 2007 no one in their right mind would have predicted that our next president would be a freshman senator from Illinois.

  42. 43 Lawrence says:

    Hamnous, mebbe you better go ahead and ban me.

    I’m a deluded dude with a 5th grade edumacation.

    That’s got to be bringing the neighborhood down!

    Prolly negatively impacting the stock price of Hamnous, Inc., too!

  43. 44 Bonecrusher says:

    #39 Simple:

    We will have to cut spending drastically. Spending cuts alone would have solved this problem a couple of decades ago, but that ship has sailed. Some measure of tax increase will be needed to square things.

    I guess you don’t agree or did not see this in my #37 above:

    Each and every time tax rates have been cut there has been an increase in revenue to the treasury – a direct result of the economy growing by more than the tax cut. The end result is that the government gets a smaller percentage of a much bigger pie which yields more pie on the plate – it works every time.

    I still say that the fair tax I referenced in #24 above would wind up generating the most money with the least pain, particularly if it was written in stone that the tax would never exceed 15%.

  44. 45 mharper42 says:

    #28 Lawrence

    “there is never any rancor or discord”
    IWHarper69 must be partaking in the spirits

    Do I hafta start using “/sarc off”? :)

  45. 46 mharper42 says:

    Even the most ardent supporters of the Fair Tax — e.g. Neal Boortz — sadly admit it is unlikely to ever be enacted when Congress gets so much of its unconstitutional power from manipulating the tax code.

  46. 47 Tedtam says:

    I found out last night that the last uncle I have will be passing on soon. He’s been a smoker, drinker, and diabetic for as long as I can remember. The diabetes affected the circulation in his legs. He put off treatment for his feet for several years, dreading the worst, I suppose. He finally went in for surgery to restore circulation. He still lost part of one foot, but the rest of the lower extremities pinked up nicely. Unfortunately, he became infected in the pelvic area, near the top of one of his leg-long incisions. He’s also having a hard time getting enough oxygen, due to his emphysema. They’ve been trying to force oxygen into him, but the mask is hard for him to deal with. The doctors have told him, after several months of rehab, antibiotics, and whatever else, that they can do nothing else to help him. While his white cell count is coming up and his kidneys are slowly starting to function again, it won’t be enough to “heal” him. About the only thing that is working are the painkillers for his back pain, but they make him very loopy and he’s losing touch with reality. They won’t say how long he has, but my uncle has chosen to come home for whatever time he has left. My cousin sounded absolutely wrung out last night. She’s been dealing with this on a daily basis for months now, and as she said “it only gets funner from here.”

    If you smoke, stop. Hubby lost a dear family friend to emphysema. It’s a long, slow, painful death and it’s not pretty. I don’t know what will eventually take my uncle, but I imagine the emphysema – and the lack of oxygen – is probably a huge factor in his body’s ability to recover from his other problems.

    And my brother-in-law has another surgery to remove tumors today. My sister is with him right now.

    Please keep them all in your prayers. Thanks.

  47. 48 Tedtam says:

    #46 Mharper

    Even the most ardent supporters of the Fair Tax — e.g. Neal Boortz — sadly admit it is unlikely to ever be enacted when Congress gets so much of its unconstitutional power from manipulating the tax code.

    What makes you think the sales tax will be “un-manipulatable”? Congress can spindle, fold, and mutilate just about anything.

  48. 49 Hamous says:

    The union will have to dissolve before our current tax system is replaced.

  49. 50 Bonecrusher says:

    #49 couchmaster/angry monkey:

    The union will have to dissolve before our current tax system is replaced.

    That may happen sooner than later.

  50. 51 Shannon says:

    …Congress gets so much of its unconstitutional power from manipulating the tax code

    I won’t disagree that code manipulation by Congress borders on the ridiculous.
    But they are Constitutionally empowered to do so by the 16th Amendment and volumes of case law.

  51. 52 Hamous says:

    Just great. Now we’re going to get into the “but Ohio never ratified the 16th amendment” arguments ;-)

  52. 53 Texpat says:

    #44 BC

    Common sense and the irrefutable lessons of history are lost on Simpleminded.

    You’re wasting your time.

    The President has been acting like an arrogant, egomaniacal tyrant.

    The Democrats have gone almost a year without producing a budget in violation of the Constitution.

    In April, Obama said he would offer up a precise plan to cut expenditures, increase taxes and reform entitlements. Not one person has seen any evidence of this proposal.

    The Republicans have been consistent in stating they required cuts in spending in excess of the debt ceiling increase demanded by the White House.

    Specific proposals to cut spending by Obama have amounted to $2 billion against a request for an increase of $2.4 trillion in public debt.

    On May 31, the House voted 318-97 to NOT increase the debt limit with almost half the Democrats siding with Republicans.

    And Simple accuses Eric Cantor of acting petulant….words cannot describe how absurd that accusation is.

  53. 54 Hamous says:

    But let’s get back to more pressing congressional matters. I’m no fan of Roger Clemens or Rusty Hardin but this is funny. The judge just declared a mistrial in the Roger Clemens case because the prosecutors showed the jurors evidence already ruled inadmissible. Getting past the fact that he was accused of lying to the largest concentration of liars in North America, Congress has no business being involved in steroids-in-baseball to begin with.

  54. 55 Tedtam says:

    #54 Hamous

    Congress has no business being involved in steroids-in-baseball to begin with.

    Sing it out loud, brother!

    I think it just gave a bunch of overblown egos a chance to hang out with famous people for a while, myself.

  55. 56 fat albert says:

    Lawrence:

    One pole does not a victory make – even if Drudge did post it.

    As far as quoting the comical – Mad magazine has more credibility.

    But hey, feel free to continue comfortably in your alternate reality, I certainly would not want to harsh your mellow…….

  56. 57 Sarge says:

    Here it is at the Comical:

    http://blog.chron.com/txpotomac/2011/07/perry-watch-obama-would-trounce-rick-perry-in-a-national-match-up/

    Hey, hey, hey – what say you Fat Albert?

    Dunno bout Albert, but I’ll pitch this in:

    Monday, Mar. 31, 1980

    National opinion polls continue to show Carter leading Reagan by an apparently comfortable margin of about 25%. They also show that more moderate Republicans like Ford would run better against the President. This suggests that Reagan is not the strongest G.O.P. choice for the November election and that he clearly faces an uphill battle.

  57. 58 Shannon says:

    52
    I volunteer to moderate with a heavy hand any comments that try to start that nonsense.
    Just let me know.

  58. 59 Sarge says:

    One pole does not a victory make – even if Drudge did post it.

    Whoever wins the Pubbie nomination will poll very differently after the Convention, no matter who it is.

  59. 60 Super Dave says:

    Letum eat cake; Obama hits Chicago for 50th birthday fund-raisers at the Aragon.

    WASHINGTON–President Obama returns to Chicago on Aug. 3 to mark his 50th birthday with fund-raisers at the Aragon Ballroom, with tickets ranging from $50 a person to $35,800 per couple, which includes VIP seating at a “Birthday Concert” where celebs will be performing and a dinner with the president.

  60. 61 Super Dave says:

    So how’s that “Hopey Changey Thing” working out for ya’;
    U.S. Satisfaction Slides to Two-Year Low.
    Decline to 16% in July from 20% in June mainly the result of drop among Democrats

  61. 62 Katfish says:

    54 & 55 – Any bets on the “over/under” of how many of our 535 professional LIARS asked for autographs????????

  62. 63 Bonecrusher says:

    #53 Texpat:

    The Democrats have gone almost a year without producing a budget in violation of the Constitution.

    I beg to differ with you sir, the D controlled Senate has not passed a budget in over 800 WISSIN DAYS. So it is even more worser than that to which yoiu allude.
    If I remember correctly, the final “passage” of Obamacare in the house was “deemed” and the vote was not actually taken, which is right in line of ignoring what the C says and just doing what you want because “We won and elections have consequences”.

  63. 64 Katfish says:

    Better satire I’ve never read … if only it were satire!!!!!

    Before the fall brings us down, before the election season begins in earnest with all its nastiness and vulgarity, before the next batch of stupid scandals and gaffes, before Sarah Palin tries to convert her movie into reality and Joe Biden resumes his imitation of an embarrassing uncle and Newt and Callista Gingrich creep us all out, can we just enjoy Obama for a moment? Before the policy choices have to be weighed and the hard decisions have to be made, can we just take a month or two to contemplate him the way we might contemplate a painting by Vermeer or a guitar lick by the early-seventies Rolling Stones or a Peyton Manning pass or any other astounding, ecstatic human achievement? Because twenty years from now, we’re going to look back on this time as a glorious idyll in American politics, with a confident, intelligent, fascinating president riding the surge of his prodigious talents from triumph to triumph. Whatever happens this fall or next, the summer of 2011 is the summer of Obama.

    Esquire’s psalm to Obama

  64. 65 Dooood says:

    the summer of 2011 is the summer of Obama.

    Ummm… yeah, if being half black is your only consideration.

    June, 2011 – Obama was half black. Yay!

    July, 2011 – Obama is still half black. Yay!

    August, 2011 – Not there yet, but pretty sure Obama will still be half black. Yay!

  65. 66 mharper42 says:

    #57 Sarge
    Yabbut back then the MSM had virtually total control of the message, so they could say Reagan had no chance and then he could win in a landslide.

  66. 67 Lawrence says:

    #56. If you bothered to look at the story, it quoted the same poll as Drudge. It was just a convenient link, that’s all.

    But hey, don’t let the facts get in the way of your Perry-Worship.

  67. 68 Lawrence says:

    Sarge, I’ve been governed by Perry for “X” number of years, I’ve voted against him in each election, and Perry, sir, is no Ronald Reagan.

  68. 69 Lawrence says:

    NOPERRY 2012!

  69. 70 Texpat says:

    #63 BC

    Yes, you are correct. I was just thinking about this session.

    It has been, as of today, 806 days (2 years, 2 months & 16 days) since the Democratically controlled House and Senate have passed a federal budget.

  70. 71 mharper42 says:

    #64 Kat
    Astounding drivel you turned up thar, podnah. We are truly doomed.

  71. 72 mharper42 says:

    Maybe they can get Lady Gaga to sing a breathy Happy Birthy to Obammy, a la Marilyn Monroe.

  72. 73 mharper42 says:

    Drudge is now reporting Gallup poll that a generic “R” candidate beats Obammy if the election were held now.
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/148487/Republican-Candidate-Extends-Lead-Obama.aspx

  73. 74 mharper42 says:

    #65 Dooood
    Thank you, Mr Bill. Funniest thing posted so far today. :)

  74. 75 Super Dave says:

    KatFish

    Better satire I’ve never read … if only it were satire!!!!!

    DAYAAM what’s he smokin’. Musta got into Bob’s stash.
    Obammy worship is TRULY astounding. They certainly don’t let the FACTS change their opinion of the Messiah. Pittyful,..just Pittyful.

  75. 76 Lawrence says:

    IWHarper69, you’re right. Problem is, NOPerry2012 is a generic Democrat candidate.

    Let me see….

    Out of control property taxes and a $2,000 property tax rebate – I guess that check’s still in the mail.

    Property Tax Commission study – Tom Pauken makes recommendations, Perry roundly ignores them.

    Gardasil and Merck – Bbbbbbuuuutttt, it’s a “cure” for cancer!

    TTC & CINTRA – Gov Goodhair and his Spanish toll road maiden.

    Expansion of Texas Business Income Tax – we weren’t paying enough, everyone knew that.

    Border Control & Immigration – Emmy award winning Marlboro Man campaign commercials – 6 weeks later dismissed as “campaign rhetorRic(k)

    $240 million business development slush funds wasted on companies like Countrywide & Angelo Mozillo.

    Sanctuary cities

    Problem is, Fat Albert & Sarge – any Texan with a 5th grade education or better knows the truth about One tRick Perry – even Dan Patrick(before he became a state Senator and developed bigger political aspirations) and you LST diehards called him Texas “biggest Rino” back in the day – or did you all forget about that?

    Jus aksin’

  76. 77 Sarge says:

    Sarge, I’ve been governed by Perry for “X” number of years, I’ve voted against him in each election, and Perry, sir, is no Ronald Reagan.

    Yah.

    But the point was that even after he got the nomination, polls showed that Carter had him beat by 25% nation wide.

    Anyone who takes a poll as a fact is an idiot.

    And even if Perry is no Reagan, Barry certainly is more Jimmah than even Jimmah was.

  77. 78 Sarge says:

    Oh–

    And Reagan was about as popular a Governor in California as Perry is in Texas.

    I don;t want Perry to get the nomination.

    But a grilled cheese sammich can beat Barry next year.

  78. 79 Adee says:

    #32 mharper42. About those Somalis in MN. My good friends in St. Paul have been sending info about the Somali enclave near there for several years, none of it positive. It seems patterened after the European enclaves in sorta taking over a territory with a “That’s our space” mentality. And getting away with it.

    #33 Hamous. Right on that Eric Cantor is the only adult in the room.
    Today is Bastille Day. Good sir, Majority Leader Cantor, fix bayonets and storm away.

    #35 Hamous. Hmm, we saved the auto industry. We did??? :)

  79. 80 Lawrence says:

    Sarge, I guess the difference between you and me is that I don’t have a rug big enough or a broom strong enough to sweep all I know about Perry out of sight and/or mind.

  80. 81 Adee says:

    #64 Katfish. Wow, what a paean to a god. Call the guys with the butterfly nets.

  81. 82 Tedtam says:

    All hail our next president!

    No tax increases proposed.
    No wars to get involved in.
    No nation building undertaken.
    No “bad behavior with women” problems to worry about.
    No new laws signed into law to further restrict our freedoms.
    No annoying campaign ads or robocalls.
    Has no personal vices nor any irritating personal habits.
    Won’t argue with the public about what they want.
    Won’t offend any nation or religion that I know of.

  82. 83 Katfish says:

    #78 –

    But a grilled cheese sammich can beat Barry next year.

    Ah betcha we can ALL (well almost) agree that we PRAY this is 110% true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  83. 84 Katfish says:

    #82 – ROFL

  84. 85 Hamous says:

    …and you LST diehards called him Texas “biggest Rino” back in the day – or did you all forget about that?

    I’ve wondered about that. Many here said they voted for Kinky over Perry. If he wasn’t good enough for your vote for governor in a state known for a weak governorship, how is it he’s good enough for president? Don’t make no sense (although I’m sure I’ll get a really long rationalization).

  85. 86 Dooood says:

    Take heed. Maybe nothing to it, but you can see what he’s talking about graphically in the roughly noon to 1:00p time frame.

  86. 87 Texpat says:

    Minnesota’s state government has been shut down for more than three weeks. Most
    Minnesotans didn’t even notice. The Democratic governor, Mark Dayton (of the Dayton Hudson retail fortune) refused to sign off on the Republican legislature’s plan to cut spending and reform debt and pension plans.

    The Republicans would not budge on their plan to close a $1.4 billion gap in state finances. They let the government shut down.

    Dayton blinked today and agreed to endorse their proposals.

  87. 88 Hamous says:

    Minnesotans didn’t even notice.

    Yeah, until this happened. No one wants to face the wrath of angry ice fishermen without booze this winter.

  88. 89 Katfish says:

    #88 – Alcohol consumers UNITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

    (Cajun version of YEEEEEHAW)

    :)

  89. 90 Texpat says:

    Righthaven keeps having its a$$ handed back to it in the Nevada federal courts.

    Today, they were fined $5,000 for intentionally lying to the court.

    Hunt went on to say he didn’t buy Righthaven’s arguments that the failure to disclose Stephens Media as an interested party in its lawsuits over R-J material was an oversight.

    “The court finds those representations are not true and that they are intentional,” Hunt said.

    Laurence Pulgram, a San Francisco attorney representing the Democratic Underground in the case in which the sanction was ordered, said the judge’s condemnation of Righthaven’s deliberate misrepresentations was significant.

    As word spreads among attorneys of the sanction, it may increase the chance that defendants that settled with Righthaven may reopen their cases – or separately sue Righthaven – on the theory settlements were made based on facts misrepresented by Righthaven.

    And Kurt Opsahl, an attorney for the Electronic Frontier Foundation in San Francisco also representing the Democratic Underground, said the EFF is likely to contest Righthaven’s claims that under the latest amendment to its lawsuit contract it has the right to sue.

  90. 91 mharper42 says:

    #76 Lawrence
    I haven’t seen anyone post here that they like Perry or want to see Perry as POTUS #45. QUITE THE OPPOSITE! But if the next election is Perry vs Obammy, then Perry is my main man on election day.

  91. 92 mharper42 says:

    #82 TT
    That is one good-looking cheese sammich! Clearly did not come out of the toaster or the microwave.

  92. 93 Sarge says:

    Sarge, I guess the difference between you and me is that I don’t have a rug big enough or a broom strong enough to sweep all I know about Perry out of sight and/or mind.

    For the life of me, I can’t see how anybody could take anything I said today to infer, imply, deduce, or cackulate that I am in any way favorable towards Perry or his candidacy.

    Once again, I have told you that a duck is not a Hun and you accuse me of burning Rome.

  93. 94 Sarge says:

    No tax increases proposed.
    No wars to get involved in.
    No nation building undertaken.
    No “bad behavior with women” problems to worry about.
    No new laws signed into law to further restrict our freedoms.
    No annoying campaign ads or robocalls.
    Has no personal vices nor any irritating personal habits.
    Won’t argue with the public about what they want.
    Won’t offend any nation or religion that I know of.

    Yabbut–

    Was it made in a microwave or a skillet?

    Can’t have any CSINOs yu know—-

  94. 95 mharper42 says:

    This story about the atheist wearing a pasta strainer as religious headgear has been up on Drudge for a while. I’m surprised no one has asked me if I am a Pastafarian.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14135523

    (By “no one”, I mean Lawrence…)

  95. 96 Bonecrusher says:

    #95 M42: From your article

    A self-confessed atheist, Mr Alm says he belongs to the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, a light-hearted, US-based faith whose members call themselves pastafarians.

    There was a former poster (he has been banned) who loved to tweak and annoy who was a strict follower of the FSM.

  96. 97 mharper42 says:

    Bones, I did not realize that. I don’t remember much about that former poster. Nor did I read the story closely enough to spot that it was US-based. I thought it was poking fun at how European Muslims want their ID photos taken with their burkas on.

  97. 98 Bonecrusher says:

    . . . . . .and they keep printing the wissin things and are committed to spending even more for that which no one wants?!?!

    The U.S. Mint in Philadelphia is a big, noisy, busy operation, capable of minting nearly 2 million presidential dollar coins daily. But most of those coins go into storage, never seeing the light of day. Costing 32 cents apiece to produce, these manganese brass dollars have proven unpopular with a public that prefers paper.
    ABC News went to one such storage facility, the Federal Reserve in Baltimore, where the coins are in plastics bags and cardboard boxes, stacked one on top of another, creating several aisles of presidential coinage worth millions of dollars.
    In their most recent annual report to Congress, the Federal Reserve says the coins are piling up so quickly they will need to spend $650,000 to build a new vault in Dallas to hold them. Shipping the coins to the new secure facility will cost an additional $3 million.

  98. 99 Bonecrusher says:

    OBAMA SUX
    WHOOOOOO-HOOOO #99

  99. 100 Bonecrusher says:

    Dog butts.

  100. 101 Lawrence says:

    Sarge and Fat Albert and Harper and anybody else supporting Perry(or any establishemnt R candidate for that matter) against Obama – can you answer the question in #85 without using the”lesser of two evils” mantra or any variation on same?

    When both parties are lying to you, repeatedly, day after day, when do you finally say no to the tooPardeedoowopoly(cool word I learned from Hamnous)?

    When do you finally stop main-lining the “lesser of two evils” and demand the truth?

  101. 102 mharper42 says:

    I never even heard of the Presidential Dollar Coin. I would like to have one of Obama if we can get rid of him next year.

  102. 103 mharper42 says:

    #101 Lawrence

    I CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

  103. 104 Bonecrusher says:

    #102 M42: The coins are only for those PsOTUS who have achieved room temperature.

  104. 105 Tedtam says:

    When do you finally stop main-lining the “lesser of two evils” and demand the truth?

    We have always demanded the truth.

    We’re just not willing to hang ourselves politically to get it. Sometimes the lesser of two evils is the best one can do. I, for one, am not willing to vote for the greater of two evils, nor am I going to stand aside and let the greater of two evils win because of my petulant refusal to participate in the electoral process because I didn’t get everything I wanted in a candidate.

  105. 106 Tedtam says:

    #102 Mharper

    I never even heard of the Presidential Dollar Coin. I would like to have one of Obama if we can get rid of him next year.

    What would be cool is if we had a “railroad party” with those coins. Lay ‘em on a track and watch ‘em get flattened.

    Sweeeet.

  106. 107 mharper42 says:

    How is doing something like voting for Kinky Friedman for Texas guv advancing the cause of liberty and rational government?

  107. 108 mharper42 says:

    #104 Bones

    The coins are only for those PsOTUS who have achieved room temperature.

    Ok, I’ll enjoy my future Obammy Dollar Coin even more under those circumstances. This is assuming we recover from the damage this dolt has done and can still afford to have a mint making coins no one really wants.

  108. 109 Sarge says:

    Sarge and Fat Albert and Harper and anybody else supporting Perry

    If I were you, I’d go see if my first grade reading comprehension teacher was still alive and sue her for everything she has.

  109. 110 Bonecrusher says:

    #101 Lawrence of Wissed-offia:

    If he wasn’t good enough for your vote for governor in a state known for a weak governorship, how is it he’s good enough for president?

    Mayhaps you have not noticed, but it seems as if the Rs have finally had their testicles descend to the proper location. I think they have a pretty good finger on the pulse/rage of the nation and in particular that of the tax payers. The establishment Rs (poop eating hemorrhoids that they are) are finally coming out of the shock from the stinging hand slap delivered to them in 2006 by the electorate that was sick of their stoooooopidity and weakness and spendaliferous insanity. The pummeling B-slaps they got in 2008 further amplified the message and that message is clear: keep wasting our money and you will be replaced. Even though the yell leader Jimmy Dick Goodhair is smarmy, he gets the message too. The House really gets the message as they have to fight the battle every 2 years; they will help keep a weaker POTUS in line, PROVIDED WE GIVE THEM SUBSTANTIAL MAJORITIES IN BOTH HOUSES.
    Is Jimmy Dick my first choice WISS NO! but just like what was stated at the first R debate: “anybody on that stage is a far better choice than the HNP in the White House”.

  110. 111 Hamous says:

    I see a pattern here. Throw your white grandmother under the bus. Lie about your dead white mother to further your Marxist agenda. Write a glowing and reverent book about your deadbeat bigamist African father. Barry hates white people.

  111. 112 Hamous says:

    Using personal tragedies to make political points is generally in bad taste, but it is typical political fare. It is much worse when such a story turns out to be a barefaced lie. Barack Obama owes the American people an apology.

    He’ll end up owing us a lot more than an apology.

  112. 113 Lawrence says:

    Well, I think I’m going to look into the reverse of the process Michael Jackson underwent. I’m going to find out how to add a tight nap to my board straight hair and then take on a pigmentation treatment that would at least get me to “high yellow” status.

    You know what they say – “Once you go black, you never go back.”

    My father-in-law who is a well educated man(LSU, Stanford, Harvard Business) says:

    “In one hundred years, everybody will be orange.”

    I want to be on the cutting edge!

  113. 114 Hamous says:

    I’m thinking exile. I’m sure some of his Kenyan relatives will be happy to provide him asylum. I hear his brother has a nice spread in Nairobi.

  114. 115 Bonecrusher says:

    #112 Hamouss: When a samurai was confronted with such a glaring stain on his character, he only had one choice at that point, and that option would greatly satisfy me at this time. I don’t think I will hold my breath waiting for it to happen.

  115. 116 Hamous says:

    Meanwhile back at the ranch:

    Radical Catholics sentence Muslim to death if he doesn’t convert.

  116. 117 Katfish says:

    #111 –

    Barry hates white people.

    Ya THINK???????????????????

    I dare say the feeling is rapidly becoming mutual! (if not long since so)

  117. 118 Lawrence says:

    #93. Your little metaphors are soooooo ccccuuuuuuuttttteeeeeeeee.

    I once read a book titled “The Leadership Techniques of Attila the Hun” or something like that. I still have the book in my study.

    Is that what you were referring to?

  118. 119 Lawrence says:

    #110. I’m not “wissed-off” as you say.

    I just made a conscious decision to no longer participate in the toopardeedoowopoly(really cool word I learned from Hamnous) unless and until the deception stops and an honest dialogue is undertaken with the American people.

    And to set fire to Rome while quacking loudly and dressed in Mongolian fashion circa 400AD.

  119. 120 Katfish says:

    YO HAMOUSTONIANS™

    *weekend travel ALERT* from your friendly neighborhood logistics dude

    HIGHWAY IH-10 KATY DESCRIPTION Westbound from MASON RD to KATY FORT BEND RD in Katy. TOTAL CLOSURE. Closed continuously from 9:00 PM, Friday, July 15 to 5:00 AM, Monday, July 18. Detour to the frontage road. START DATE7/15/2011

  120. 121 Sarge says:

    #93. Your little metaphors are soooooo ccccuuuuuuuttttteeeeeeeee.

    Metaphor, metafive, metasix.

    Its all I got.

  121. 122 wagonburner says:

    #116 hammie
    An nary a whimper will be raised by Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, or the UN because the crime of apostasy against Lutheranism is much more heinous than raping and killing a young girl.

  122. 123 fat albert says:

    #101 Lawrence:

    Do you deliberately misread other people’s comments, or are you just not real bright?

    Not once – ever – have you read anything to indicate that I support or endorse Rick Perry for President. Don’t like him, don’t trust him. But, in a two man race against Barack Obama I will vote for Rick Perry every single time. I’ll hold my nose to do so, but I’ll do it.

    Why? Because in spite of your, no doubt fervent, wishes otherwise, we do indeed live in a two party duopoly. You change the system and I’ll change the way I vote. In the meantime, as bad as Rick Perry is, he’s light years better than BHO.

    Just because YOU have decided that “the lesser of two evils” rational is no longer valid doesn’t make it so. It simply means you are once again burying you head in the sand, sticking you fingers in your ears, closing your eyes and singing la, la, la, la, la,….. loudly, trying to ignore reality. Excuse me if I join the adults and deal with what IS, not what I wish it was.

    And, for what it’s worth, given our current Constitution, I do not believe that we will ever have anything other than a 2 party system. I think a multi-party system almost requires a parliamentary type system.

  123. 124 Darren says:

    Simple #14;

    Having Five Wives is its own punishment !!

    AGREED!!!!

  124. 125 Texpat says:

    Michael W. McConnell, the very smart, highly respected, conservative legal scholar and director of the Stanford Constitutional Law Center, has an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal today.

    It’s behind the firewall, but here is a quote:

    This defiance of the Budget Act is responsible for the current blamefest in Washington. The law was intended to bring transparency and timeliness to debates over taxing and spending. All proposals are public, and all are scored by the CBO according to the same metric. This makes it difficult for politicians to shift blame. This year, without a genuine presidential budget, or any Senate budget, the negotiations are shrouded in fog. The president may tell press conferences that he proposed $3 trillion in spending reductions, but there is no way to know what that means without a budget. . . .

    The Budget Act was designed to force all competing plans to be disclosed publicly and evaluated according to the same baselines and criteria. It is too late to meet the Act’s deadlines, but our leaders could still comply with its spirit.

    If the president would put his plan into budgetary language, as the House already has done, and make it available to the CBO, the public could readily see who is being serious in the negotiations. We would know whether we have been offered a bracing helping of peas, or a misleading mess of pottage. As it is, the president has put a covered dish on the table and, thanks to noncompliance with the Budget Act, we do not know what it contains.

  125. 126 Sarge says:

    Do you deliberately misread other people’s comments, or are you just not real bright?

    OOOO—-OOOOO—pick me, pick me /waves hand in air and fidgits in seat.

  126. 127 wagonburner says:

    “In one hundred years, everybody will be orange.”

    Looks like you got some catching up to do.

  127. 128 Katfish says:

    OMG …………… Saturday Night LIVE’s best writers could not come CLOSE to this!!!

    New rule for WH press corps: stop asking questions when you see the President

    This may be the most thin-skinned President since Richard Nixon.

  128. 129 CbR says:

    Beltway GOP – TAKE NOTICE …. we’re watching !!

  129. 130 CbR says:

    For all the rest:

    BREAKING NEWS: The Pity Train has derailed at the intersection of Suck It Up & Move On, and crashed into We All Have Problems, before coming to a complete stop at Get the Heck Over It. Any complaints about how we operate can be forwarded to 1-800-waa-waaa. This is Dr. Sniffle, Reporting LIVE from Quit-chur Fussin’. If you don’t.. suck it up cupcake, Life doesn’t revolve around YOU !!..

  130. 131 Katfish says:

    CbR Bubba I saw that fly by earlier…………………………..pleasepleasePLEASE Lord let the DC ‘Pubbies grow some MAJOR Huevos!!

    We can STILL turn this freakin suicide mission around! (I hope)

  131. 132 Shannon says:

    130
    Meanie

  132. 133 wagonburner says:

    Second airport security in Canada datapoint:

    The people in Edmonton are just as friendly, professional, and competent as the ones in Calgary.

    Stop editing my post, you mustard farmer! ;)

  133. 134 wagonburner says:

    First, The Pelosi pitched a fit because she didn’t have a significant enough role to play in debt negotiations.

    Now, she claims she’s almost too busy to participate.

  134. 136 CbR says:

    132

    I worked long and hard to get that way in my aging survival. Leave me to my pleasures you whoosie.

  135. 137 Lawrence says:

    #123. I think I’d prefer it if you just thought I wasn’t real bright.

    Maybe you should reread this paragraph you wrote and think about how bright it reads:

    “Not once-ever-have you ever read anything to indicate that I support or endorse Rick Perry for President.

    …I will vote for Rick Perry”

    I guess I’m not too bright – how do you not ever-once- support or endorse Rick Perry and then vote for him? I don’t ever recall taking that course so count me as dull.

    Hey, why do I have to change the system – why don’t you change it?

    Are you with him or agin’ him?

  136. 138 Darren says:

    I found it. Reynolds v. the United states:

    In our opinion, the statute immediately under consideration is within the legislative power of Congress. It is constitutional and valid as prescribing a rule of action for all those residing in the Territories, and in places over which the United States have exclusive control. This being so, the only question which remains is, whether those who make polygamy a part of their religion are excepted from the operation of the statute. If they are, then those who do not make polygamy a part of their religious belief may be found guilty and punished, while those who do, must be acquitted and go free. This would be introducing a new element into criminal law. Laws are made for the government of actions, and while they cannot interfere with mere religious belief and opinions, they may with practices. Suppose one believed that human sacrifices were a necessary part of religious worship, would it be seriously contended that the civil government under which he lived could not interfere to prevent a sacrifice? Or if a wife religiously believed it was her duty to burn herself upon the funeral pile of her dead husband, would it be beyond the power of the civil government to prevent her carrying her belief into practice?

    So here, as a law of the organization of society under the exclusive dominion of the United States, it is provided that plural marriages shall not be allowed. Can a man excuse his practices to the contrary because of his religious belief? The permit this would be to make the professed doctrines of religious belief superior to the law of the land, and in effect to permit every citizen to become a law unto himself. Government could exist only in name under such circumstances….

    http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/reynoldsvus.html

    Also, in searching for that case I found this one. This too should make Kody Brown’s case difficult to win.

    The United States Supreme Court on Monday declined to hear an appeal of a case that might have recognized a right of polygamy, according to the Christian Science Monitor. The court declined to hear an appeal by a Utah man who sought to have his bigamy conviction overturned because of the Court’s landmark 2003 ruling on homosexual rights.

    As a result, the state of Utah’s bigamy law was upheld, even though it clashes with the religious beliefs of some in the state.

    Some Christians, including representatives of the Alliance Defense Fund (ADF), a Christian legal agency which had filed a brief in the case, praised the decision to not hear the case.

    “Polygamy is no mere social taboo,” Alliance Defense Fund Senior Counsel Chris Stovall said in a press release for the ADF. “It is destructive on multiple levels, and the court was right to turn down review of this attempt to attack appropriate protections of marriage.”

    He noted that the case involving homosexuality in 2003 involved criminal prosecution for private acts, but the case involving Rodney Holm, the man prosecuted for bigamy by Utah had lived openly and simultaneously in various households.

    http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/163128/united_states_supreme_court_declines.html?cat=17

  137. 139 Darren says:

    Tedtam #47;

    If you smoke, stop. Hubby lost a dear family friend to emphysema.

    Sorry to hear that. And, yes, people would be better off by not smoking.

  138. 140 Darren says:

    Water-cooled PC has a plant growing out of it

    Labelled under “Dude?” from Hot Air

  139. 141 Darren says:

    I forgot to add in my #138:

    I know the Supreme Court decision regarding polygamy was in the case of a territory and not a state but I cannot imagine the principles declared to justify that ruling not applying to a state, especially under today’s unfederalitstic mind of government.

  140. 142 mharper42 says:

    #119 Lawrence

    And to set fire to Rome while quacking loudly and dressed in Mongolian fashion circa 400AD.

    Talk about hunky menfolk, woo hoo! You go, Larry!

    Me, I pure-dee LUV Sarge’s “duck – burning Rome” postings because he has caught the very essence of the non sequitur. Bravo.

  141. 143 Darren says:

    When my Toyota finally kicks the bucket, I know what care to purchase in its place.

    The Future is Here: These ‘Transition’ Flying Cars Approved as ‘Street Legal’

  142. 144 Hamous says:

    …because he has caught the very essence of the non sequitur.

    He certainly described the essence of the non sequitur, but in the process of applying it incorrectly, he is guilty of introducing the straw man. I veritable recursive fallacy ;-)

  143. 145 mharper42 says:

    #144 Hammy

    Sorry, I don’t agree here that Sarge has introduced a straw man. Lawrence is *still* here claiming (#137) that those of us who have stated we would vote for Perry over Obammy are guilty of “supporting” Perry.

  144. 146 fat albert says:

    Lawrence:

    I think I’d prefer it if you just thought I wasn’t real bright.

    You’re making it real easy.

    But, I’m used to teaching those who have to work to catch up – let me try one more time.

    The are a number of people currently running for the Republican nomination for President. Some are good, some not so good, some are bad. There are also a number of people who might run for the Republican nomination. Again, some are good, some not so good, some bad.

    I haven’t yet decided who I will support for the Republican nomination – it will surely NOT be Rick Perry. But, at some point in time the Republican party will settle on its nominee for President in 2012.

    Lacking a political earthquake of earthshattering proportions Barack Obama will be the Democratic nominee for President in 2012. At best BHO is incompetent, at worst he is ….
    Anyway you read him, his policies are destroying our country.

    There is no other political party in the US that could possible win even 10% of the popular vote. and that may be charitable.

    Therefore, in November of 2012, I will vote for the Republican nominee for president. I don’t care who it is. Perry, Romney, Palin, Bachmann, Pawlenty, Huntsman, Santorum, Cain, McCotter, Bolton, Daniels, Huckabee, Thune, Pence, DeMint, Cristie, Gingrich, Giuliani, hell, I’ll even vote for Ron Paul against BHO. Is that voting for the lesser of two evils? Perhaps, but it’s the only realistic game in town.

    If you want to read that as an endorsement of Perry, or any of the others, fine. You can also call an airplane a quarter horse if it will make you happy. The adults in the room will understand.

  145. 147 mharper42 says:

    Thanks, FA. That seems clear enough Ah ‘spect even Lawrence will “git it” now.

    I have a Nazi (HOA) meeting tonight, check y’all later.

  146. 148 Lawrence says:

    “The adults in the room will understand.”

    Are you trying to channel Texpat with that commentary?

    “You can also call an airplane a quarter horse if that will make you happy.”

    Are you trying to channel Sarge with that commentary?

  147. 149 Texpat says:

    Are you trying to channel Texpat with that commentary?

    Heh.

  148. 150 Texpat says:

    Actually, I agree with every word of Fat Albert’s #146 comment. The hardest part for me would be Ron Paul, though.

  149. 151 fat albert says:

    #148:

    Are you trying to channel Texpat with that commentary?

    Nope, pretty much everybody but you.

  150. 152 Sarge says:

    If you want to read that as an endorsement of Perry, or any of the others, fine. You can also call an airplane a quarter horse if it will make you happy. The adults in the room will understand.

    I think you meant to say:

    “I tell you that an airplane is not a horse, and you accuse me of making glue.”

  151. 153 fat albert says:

    #150 Texpat:

    Luap Nor would be tough. So would Guiliani. In fact several others would make me wince. But any of them would be preferable to the current occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

  152. 154 fat albert says:

    #152:

    Please Sarge, I really don’t need the help. :)

  153. 155 Lawrence says:

    Considering I’m not too bright, I’ve come to the simple conclusion after being in business for 23+ years that the behavior that you reward is the behavior you will get more of.

    Now, in my simplistic view, voting for rino’s, progressive R’s, candidates that govern in diametric opposition to the way they campaigned is rewarding behavior that I no longer desire.

    I was once a conservative R – but I can’t square where they’ve gone in my lifetime. I’m still conservative just not R. I will no longer delude myself into thinking that the R’s aren’t just as responsible as the D’s for the fiscal mess we’re in. The “tanks in the street” crap threats no longer scare me. I know that either Party is on the same road.

    We need an outlier event and I know the “lesser of two evils” ain’t it.

  154. 156 Lawrence says:

    Fat Albert – did you get your degree in condescension or patronization?

  155. 157 Darren says:

    PJM’s Bob Owens has long speculated that the primary reason for Operation Fast and Furious was to perpetuate the lie that 90 percent of illegal firearms in Mexico were from the United States.

    Owens’ assertion was buoyed on Wednesday by internal ATF emails obtained by Townhall.com. One email reads:

    Can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same FfL and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun multiple sales. Thanks Mark R. Chait Assistant Director Field Operations.

    This would seem to be a “smoking gun” for Owens’ assertion that this operation was never about crime and always about an “under the table” effort to institute the gun control Obama knew he could never push through Congress.

    Additionally, Obama has just issued an executive order which requires gun dealers in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California to report multiple long gun (rifle or shotgun) purchases to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) in order to combat illegal firearms trafficking along the Mexican border.

    Oops.

    Gunwalker: Smoking Gun Email?

  156. 158 Hamous says:

    Okay folks, I have a favor to ask. Let me preface this with an acknowledgement that I am as guilty as anyone.

    For a while now I’ve seen the level of personal attacks, name-calling, ribbing, call it what you want, rise to an uncomfortable level. It certainly makes me uncomfortable. I would like us all to refrain from calling each other idiot, dense, moron, dumbass, blah, blah, blah. Just because someone has a different opinion from you doesn’t mean they’re stupid. Misguided maybe, but not an idiot. Heck, they may even be an idiot (not that anyone here is) but this is not the forum to publicly announce it. They usually speak for themselves without any help. And just because someone may support (or not support) a particular politician you find the devil incarnate does not mean they are Satan’s spawn.

    So please, let’s argue and debate our opinions and points. They may even get heated at times. But let’s not lower ourselves down to the level of Scottish soccer fans ;-)

    Can we do this? Can we keep it civil?

  157. 159 Katfish says:

    BLOG MONKEY………….er…………..uh………………………GrammyHammy has thusly spaketh unto Us’ns!!

    :)

    FIFM

  158. 160 Texpat says:

    Hamous

    I will agree to your request to stop calling commenters dumb if you will declare a ban on scatological euphemisms. It’s really annoying and devoid of taste. Most everyone here is literate enough to insult public figures without referring to fecal matter.

  159. 161 Bonecrusher says:

    #146 FA: Your post is great. I may get the dry heaves voting for Romney, Gingrich, Perry or Luap, but I will absolutely vote for whichever R is on the ticket in NOVEMBER. I have not yet decided who I will vote for in march or april or whenever the Texas primary is. I think that it is pretty clear that in no way could getting the dry heaves to be forced for one of those mentioned above constitutes an endorsement or support.

  160. 162 Bonecrusher says:

    #160 BBBBut Texpat without those, what the scatological euphemism would we talk about?

  161. 163 fat albert says:

    Lawrence:

    We need an outlier event and I know the “lesser of two evils” ain’t it.

    You are correct sir. But, while we are waiting for that event to occur, we have to deal with the reality we live in. You show me a 3rd party candidate with a reasonable chance of winning and I’ll vote for him. But……….

    The odds are simply not there. As popular as Teddy Roosevelt was he only got 27% as a 3rd party candidate. And, in 2008 if you add ALL of the other candidates together they got less than 2% of the vote. It’s just not gonna happen.

    In the meantime every vote that the Republicans don’t get is one step closer to putting BHO back into office.

    Fat Albert – did you get your degree in condescension or patronization?

    Neither, but in the heat of debate I do sometimes let my sarcastic mouth overload my a$$. My apologies for any offense I’ve given.

  162. 164 Lawrence says:

    Hammer, I don’t know Fat Albert from Eve – the guy just continues with his insulting insinuations and I had about enough.

    I kept it as civil as I could – if the bar is higher than that I guess you better get out the black flag.

  163. 165 Tedtam says:

    The highlight of my day:

    Calling in to KSEV to respond to something a previous caller said, and having the opportunity to call Obama a frikkin’ idiot to the whole KSEV audience.

    I would have used “wissin’ ” but then I’d have to explain it, and I didn’t know if I’d have enough time. Do we have enough room on the Couch for interlopers who might be informed of our presence should I mention our little fambly on air the next time I get the urge to express myself in no uncertain terms to the entire Houston population?

    The “frikkin’ idiot” did get a loud guffaw of approval.

    My work here is done.

  164. 166 Darren says:

    blah, blah, blah

    If anyone called me, “blah, blah, blah,” I tell you, I’ll go ninja crazy on them. :evil:

  165. 167 Bonecrusher says:

    This is really cool, there’s fur a flyin and I am not one of the contestants:>)

  166. 168 Darren says:

    Is this a scatalogical euphemism? It’s actually true and I am proud of it.

  167. 169 Hamous says:

    I’m not calling anyone out. Heck, many of you I’ve broke bread with. I know you’re decent folk. I think that’s part of the problem. A lot of you don’t know each other except on these impersonal pages. All I’m asking is tone it down when addressing each other. I don’t think that’s too much to ask.

    And I tend to agree with Texpat’s point. The scatological references have long since outlived their usefulness as adjectives. A rose by any other name…

  168. 170 fat albert says:

    #164 Lawrence:

    I don’t know Fat Albert from Eve

    I’m just the fat guy with a beard, This is Eve.

  169. 171 Bonecrusher says:

    #170 FA: Eve’s clothes don’t fit very well.

  170. 172 fat albert says:

    Are you complaining or just making an observation?

  171. 174 Shannon says:

    Primary Election Date in Texas is March 6, 2012.

  172. 175 Bonecrusher says:

    #172 FA: Just an observation. Here’s another: Once a man sees his first nekkid woman. . . . . . . .well then he just has to see all the rest.

  173. 176 Shannon says:

    173
    Good luck with that.

    2008 Texas Republican Primary results:

    John McCain 697,767 51.21%
    Ron Paul 66,360 4.87%

  174. 177 Hamous says:

    Lawrence is *still* here claiming (#137) that those of us who have stated we would vote for Perry over Obammy are guilty of “supporting” Perry.

    Huh? I think by any definition, if you vote for someone you’re supporting him. It may be grudgingly, but you are supporting him.

  175. 178 fat albert says:

    #177 Hammy:

    Then let me be perfectly clear: I have not decided who I will support in the Republican primary, but I have ruled several out already.

    I will support, perhaps grudgingly, ANY currently conceivable Republican candidate against the current President.

    If that means I’m rewarding the behavior I (and Lawrence) no longer desire, so be it. I myself can see the difference between what the Democrats are currently doing and what the Republicans have done in the past.

    As I have stated in the past: The difference between bad and worse is far more important (and pertinent) than the difference between good and bad.

  176. 179 Bonecrusher says:

    #157 Darren: The gun walker scandal really makes Watergate pale in comparison, doesn’t it? It is worse than Clinton lying under oath, there are at least 2 federal agents dead as a direct result of the ATF NOT ENFORCING THE WISSIN LAW. Remember the pattern: create a problem (guns killing us people in the hands of known scatological euphemism human debris); potential solution is to make more restrictive gun laws, which require more paperwork for dealers , which requires more federal scatological euphemism human debris to slog through the paperwork which requires an incresed budget. The real goal is to confiscate the guns through any means necessary. I it is a whole lot easier to grab the guns when you can get a bunch of lemmings to demand it on TV. You create the lemmings by creating the problem, see above, which is rooted in not enforcing the laws on the books. As we all know, it is not about our safety, that was never a concern, the entire thrust is to disarm the public so that it is easier to abuse them.

  177. 180 Hamous says:

    Fat Boy – We’re on the same wavelength. Lawrence knows I disagree with him on this too. I will vote for almost anyone running or thinking about running, including Jimmy Dick. I will vote for Luap Nor if he’s the nominee. But, whoever I vote for, there’s no way I can say I’m voting for him but not supporting him.

    Btw, my line is Rudy Tutti. I will not vote for him. No way no how.

  178. 181 Shannon says:

    Dang. The impact of the new rule has already improved this place.

  179. 182 Super Dave says:

    For a while now I’ve seen the level of personal attacks, name-calling, ribbing, call it what you want, rise to an uncomfortable level. It certainly makes me uncomfortable.

    Hambone is a “Poopy Head” ……Ducks and runs the zig-zag pattern that I learned from our own “Southern Demostic Terrorist” :grin:

  180. 183 Texpat says:

    I will vote for whomever the Republican Party nominates for president in 2012 – male or female, mammal or foul, reptile, biped or quadroped as long as they meet the requirements listed in the U.S. Constitution.

  181. 184 Texpat says:

    #181 Shannon

    Dang. The impact of the new rule has already improved this place.

    Well, the ambient aroma of the place has improved dramatically.

  182. 185 Dooood says:

    I will vote for a grilled cheese sandwich in 2012. And I will refer to it as neither an idiot nor some variant of the fecal matter theme. This is my solemn pledge unto you. Unless I get hungry and eat it before then. Or I get drunk and forget.

  183. 186 Super Dave says:

    Texpat

    I will vote for whomever the Republican Party nominates for president in 2012 – male or female, mammal or foul, reptile, biped or quadroped as long as they meet the requirements listed in the U.S. Constitution.

    Amen Brother! There is NO WAY we could do worse.

  184. 187 Tedtam says:

    You go, girl!

    What incredibly brave women. And what despicable men.

  185. 188 mharper42 says:

    #177 Hammy
    Nov 2012 is a long way off. I’m pretty sure I won’t be voting for Perry in the Texas primary. Therefore I can not be said to “support” him. About 6 better candidates would have to drop out or drop dead before Perry would seem to me to be the best R candidate next March.

  186. 189 Texpat says:

    #188 mharper42

    Hamous was speaking directly to a situation where Perry was running against Obama. It was an either/or proposititon.

  187. 190 mharper42 says:

    I just hope the renewed emphasis on civility on Hammy’s Couch doesn’t mean that Sarge won’t get another chance to come up with a “making glue” comment.

  188. 191 Hamous says:

    You’d be hard-pressed to find anyone here who voted for Perry in any primary.

  189. 192 GJT says:

    This stuff sounds a lot like walking into a car dealership, announcing to the sales person you fully intend to pay list, but you’re gonna pretend to scream a lot of demands first.

  190. 193 GJT says:

    Well, the ambient aroma of the place has improved dramatically

    I still smell mustard and grilled cheese.

  191. 194 mharper42 says:

    Texpat
    It is not an either/or situation that I have been commenting on tonight. I’ve been saying I don’t like Rick Perry ever since the rumors started that he might run. I still hope he won’t run; doing so might harm the chances of better candidates than he is. Similarly, I didn’t like and didn’t “support” McLame last time, didn’t vote for him in the primary, but did vote for him Nov 2008. Only rational move at that point. Wish more people had agreed with me back then!

  192. 195 mharper42 says:

    #192 So, Tim, who is your candidate? And then will you take any R over Obama when it comes down to that in Nov 2012?

  193. 196 Adee says:

    Popping back in this evening. I shall happily vote for any Republican nominee who can fog a mirror in opposition to T. Rex Obama. However I’m sure everyone who’s in contention presently can do more than fog a mirror. :) Guess it’s the minimum requirement in these dire circumstances in which we find our beloved country.

  194. 197 Darren says:

    200!

  195. 198 Darren says:

    Dang, just missed it.

  196. 199 Darren says:

    How in the world can I get 200?

    Hmmmmmm……..

  197. 200 mharper42 says:

    try again

  198. 202 GJT says:

    #195

    I’m getting nothing from any of ‘em so far, I damn sure don’t understand telling them no matter how they act or say they have our unconditional vote.

  199. 203 Darren says:

    #176;

    John McCain 697,767 51.21%
    Ron Paul 66,360 4.87%

    So what? Did you see Ron Paul’s ad? There’s no way he’s at all evil. He’s Lawrence’s man for 2012!

  200. 204 Darren says:

    mharper #200;

    :)

  201. 205 mharper42 says:

    Would you believe I was trying to help ya out? :oops:

  202. 206 Darren says:

    Bonecrusher;

    well then he just has to see all the rest.

    Or he can leave the situation. That would be a far better choice. Except if it was his wife. :)

    The gun walker scandal really makes Watergate pale in comparison, doesn’t it?

    Yup. In fact it dwarfs Watergate. Liberaly supporting murderous drug cartel thugs in Mexico and inevitably crime right here in the USA just to push through anti-gun legislation stinks of fascists commiting arsen and calling upon government to to control the people so that no more arsens can be ignited.

  203. 207 Darren says:

    mharper #205;

    I believe you because you’re like that. Thanks but I did not seriously want to get to 200; just work up to it and leave it one post short all the while saying that I want to get to 200.

    Thanks for your effort.

  204. 208 Darren says:

    #191;

    You’d be hard-pressed to find anyone here who voted for Perry in any primary.

    I did. After Medina would not “refudiate” the 9/11 truthers.

  205. 209 mharper42 says:

    Well, I couldn’t have beaten a nicer guy to the 200 mark. :)
    BWA HA HA HA

  206. 210 Darren says:

    And then will you take any R over Obama

    If Perry runs then I’ll take a P over Obama.

    Is that a euphemism?

  207. 211 Darren says:

    BWA HA HA HA

    Yeah, I laugh too at that nice guy remark. Especially considering who you were referring to. ;)

  208. 212 Hamous says:

    This stuff sounds a lot like walking into a car dealership, announcing to the sales person you fully intend to pay list, but you’re gonna pretend to scream a lot of demands first.

    That’s a pretty dang good point.

  209. 213 phil says:

    Regarding the guns to Mexico scandal…

    Obumma and Holder could devise a plan to nuke half the planet and the Satanic Streamed Media still wouldn’t cover it.

    Liberal corruption is always good cuz it’s for the common good.

  210. 214 wagonburner says:

    I will vote for whomever the Republican Party nominates for president in 2012 – male or female, mammal or foul, reptile, biped or quadroped as long as they meet the requirements listed in the U.S. Constitution.

    What? You got something against grilled cheese sammiches?

  211. 215 wagonburner says:

    Amen Brother! There is NO WAY we could do worse.

    Things can always get worse. And in ways you cannot imagine.

  212. 217 Darren says:

    phil #223;

    Obumma and Holder could devise a plan to nuke half the planet and the Satanic Streamed Media still wouldn’t cover it.

    I would agree.

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