Wednesday Open Comments

Well, it’s late and I’m tired and can’t come up with much right now. I have recently been watching the TV series “Lie to Me”.   I had caught only an isolated episode or two before, but I am now catching up through the miracle of the internet. I began to wonder what life would be like if

(1) We all had the ability to tell what people were really thinking. If we could always tell when someone was lying to us, how would our society change? OR
(2) What if we had deception specialists that were consulted in political campaigns that we could trust? How would this change political races? Would this be a good thing or not? Would we end up with psychopaths or pathological liars filling our Congress, or would we end up with honest people who may or may not become liars and cheats after being in power?

Would I want this ability? Would my husband never be able to tell a white lie about if an outfit makes my bottom look fat? What would only being able to the truth do to relationships? There would never be a surprise birthday party ever again. Would our national security be at risk? Or is telling the truth all the time a good thing for everyone? Could you ever be married to someone like Dr. Lightman?

Talk amongst yourselves.

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80 Responses to “Wednesday Open Comments”

  1. 1
    El Gordo says:

    What is a lie anyway? If I know something to be a fact, but I stand by silently as another tells a story at odds with the facts, and I a liar by failing to correct the record and remaining silent? If I repeat a falsehood told to me by someone else, but I believe it to be the truth, is that a lie? The answer to the “Does this dress make me look fat?” question might honestly be “no” – because you are fat – it has nothing to do with the dress. So even if everyone were to tell the truth all the time, it would still only be the individuals’ perception of the truth – and perhaps not actually the truth after all.

    But then, maybe I lie, so who knows.

  2. 2
    GJT says:

    If someone came up with a BS detector, a portable one you could carry around, would it sell? I don’t think it would, I think people wanna hear what they wanna hear.

  3. 3
    Katfish says:

    Love that show ‘Lie to Me’ – don’t get to watch as often as I’d like to.

    But I gotta believe (like most anything else) there’s always a ‘trade off’……………….being that perceptive would be a blessing and a curse simultaneoiusly

  4. 4
    The Dude says:

    I’ll take the dissenting view here. I think I’d like to know the truth, regardless of its implications. Yes, there are many nuances to “truth”, but something is either true or it’s not. Call me a binary thinker if you like.

  5. 5
    bob42 says:

    When you gotta go, you gotta go.

    An on-duty Framingham police detective accused of pulling over to relieve himself in a private yard, then drawing his gun on the home’s resident, has been indicted on criminal charges, the Middlesex District Attorney’s Office announced yesterday.

    This is the kind of event that sometimes gets swept under the rug by the authoritahs. Fortunately, the homeowner’s surveillance camera was working.

  6. 6
    Sarge says:

    Call me a binary thinker if you like.

    You’re a binary thinker.

    Now, call me a taxi.

  7. 7
    Adee says:

    Good morning all. Down to 44 at 6 on the north bank of the Brazos at Richmond. Going to the barn to feed the mares it was, umm, chilly. Yesterday at 46 it wasn’t really chilly, but dawdling on the path to the barn was not the thing to do. Besides, the girls were looking out their windows and talking. Enter the barn and turn on the lights to see three bright faces with expectant expressions follow every step to and from the feed room. Breakfast served, it’s back to the house to see about breakfast for the unfeathered bipeds.

    Sunrise was exquisite again this morning. Ground mist below the treeline looked like a frozen lake on fire with deep pink and gold. Then his disk breached the treetops with pure gold light that drew the mists skyward in his breath. A promising start to the day. Thank you, Lord. Woodsy creatures slept in until about 8:30, but now a few birds flit about from tree to tree. Wake up out there world.

  8. 8
    The Dude says:

    Now, call me a taxi.

    Bah dum… bump.

    :smile:

    Odd, you don’t look like a taxi.

  9. 9
    bob42 says:

    Today is my wedding anniversary. Fortunately I no longer need to purchase flowers for her on such occasions.

  10. 10
    bweldon says:

    Why am i not surprised at this?

    Secret Taliban peace Talks there is only one line in there that I have issue with and it is the request that Mohammad Omar be granted exile in Saudi Arabia as a deposed head of state.

  11. 11
    OletimerLin says:

    G’Morning all

    I prefer the truth, I don’t harbor resentments against people for their transgressions. Lord knows I have made plenty in my life. If they come to me and tell me what they have done to wrong me and make amends (amends are not an apology, they are saying what you will do to correct the bad action), I will accept the amends and get on with my life.

    I also believe one can tell the truth without being brutal about it. Instead of telling a girl her face would stop a clock, why not say “When I’m with you time stands still”?

  12. 12
    Bonecrusher says:

    This is way off topic but pegs the Bonecrusher Cool-O-Meter!

  13. 13
    bob42 says:

    Oopsie. I forgot to add the punch line for my #9 above.

  14. 14
    OletimerLin says:

    More brag on my daughter: (maybe her career is ascending?)
    Seems like she is going to be on the air about the play.

    What excites & inspires the cast members of
    LOOK BACK IN ANGER?

    Tune In to WNYU this Wednesday at 7:30 pm!
    CITYWIDE features an interview with director Reesa Graham
    and actors Anna Marie Sell and Brandon Walker.
    Listen on 89.1 FM or Stream Live from http://www.wnyu.org

  15. 15
    Katfish says:

    #12 – It’s “so far off” the linky no worky

    HEH

  16. 16
    OletimerLin says:

    #12 Bones
    Dead link?

  17. 17
    OletimerLin says:

    Obama told voters his recovery plan will begin yielding new jobs soon

    The jobs of Speaker of the House and Senate Majority Leader are about to open up

  18. 18
    OletimerLin says:

    I noticed where Walter Mondale is urging liberals to fight harder against conservatives. He’s particularly incensed against the Religious Right.He said there is no place for God in politics.

    Apparently God felt the same way about Walter Mondale.

  19. 19
    OletimerLin says:

    #9 Bob

    When I got to that stage in married life I subscribed to the Married Mans Version Of Playboy.

    Every month the centerfold is the exact same woman.

  20. 20
    bob42 says:

    Fox News gets punked, again.

    Yesterday morning, Fox & Friends reported the LAPD had ordered 10,000 new jetpacks at a cost of $100,000 each. Outrageous!

    Except it’s not true.

    Gawker was the first to report on the story. ‘Jetpacks for the LAPD’ was the journalism of the Weekly World News. Maybe the fact that Los Angeles would be spending a billion dollars on jetpacks should have tipped off a producer or host.

    Nah… The video is pretty good. They bought it hook, line and sinker. (Snickerz)

  21. 21
    Bonecrusher says:

    Let’s try this linkie thingie or just go to Drudge and go most the way down the left column.

  22. 22
    Bonecrusher says:

    There, I fixed it:>). IT still pegs my Cool-O-Meter!

  23. 23
    Tedtam says:

    #3 Katfish

    I’ve mentioned the charisms workshop that we had at our church last year. There was a list of these special gifts, some of which I remember: administration, helps, mercy, intercessory prayer, discernment of spirits, teaching, music, and others.

    I sat next to a lady who had the gift of discernment of spirits. She was so grateful that she had been directed to this workshop, because for years she had thought (and been told) that she was crazy. She said it was like the veil between this world and the spiritual world was almost transparent. She could sense evil and evil spirits. I told her that I thought it would be kind of cool to have that ability, and she corrected me. “What if you knew your brother was dating a woman who was evil? What do you say? When you see something wrong in your family, would you risk bearing the burden of possibly tearing your family apart or would you say something that probably wouldn’t make a difference?” That took me back. She had actually lived that experience.

    Yep, being that perceptive could be difficult. There’s a character on the show who admits he doesn’t date often, because he is often disappointed by the lack of integrity in his dates.

  24. 24
    Tedtam says:

    BTW – my internet connection is being extremely apathetic today. Hammie, you may need to plan tomorrow’s thread, or someone else who has access privileges. I don’t know how long it’ll be up. Or down.

  25. 25
    SC says:

    23 tt My better half is like that. The worst part is that when she is the strongest spiritualy she is the most tormented.

  26. 26
    Bonecrusher says:

    Darren, your #32 post from yesterday’s open comments: linkie thingie to story
    1) You stay up too darned late, good grief man, don’t you ever sleep??
    2) Classic lefty, that pres Morales; and the guy who got his “bells” rung got arrested?!? I guess if we ever accuse the foul “O” to his face that he is incompetent, and an enemy of the Constitution and the people of the USA, we can expect to be “dissappeared” right?

  27. 27
    The Dude says:

    I told her that I thought it would be kind of cool to have that ability, and she corrected me. “What if you knew your brother was dating a woman who was evil? What do you say? When you see something wrong in your family, would you risk bearing the burden of possibly tearing your family apart or would you say something that probably wouldn’t make a difference?”

    I guess for me it would be a question of degree. When she says “evil” are we talking bodies buried in the back yard evil or just sort of a gossipy, stretches the truth type? Then of course, there are myriad degrees in between. How bad do you have to be to be “evil”?

  28. 28
    Bonecrusher says:

    #27 Dude: I think this is a heart condition; evil has a basic tendency to shun or be repelled by the truths contained in The Scriptures while those who are not evil tend to be drawn towards them. This is not a “religious” thing either; there are those who, without knowing the Law of Moses, adhere to quite a bit of it by their own natural inclinations/convictions while there are others who eschew such a lifestyle. For example, look at the contrast between a volunteer at a homeless shelter and a gang thug “enforcer”.

  29. 29
    The Dude says:

    That makes sense in a general way, Bonecrusher. Getting down to specifics though, it’s difficult for me to think of all of mankind as being “one way or the other” so to speak, especially considering that we all sin. But I can think of instances in my life where I have gotten, for lack of a better term, a bad vibe from certain people. Maybe God’s way of telling me to steer clear?

  30. 30
    Bonecrusher says:

    Correctamundo Dudski! I have had the feeling walking into stores and when I speak to some people. I recall one instance many years ago while on a cruise; we (me and Mrs Bonecrusher) disembarked on the island of Martinique and went through some nearby shops. We did not pay a whole lot of attention and after being in one shop for about 90 seconds, I had a major case of the creeps; upon further investigation we realized that we had wondered into a voodoo shop – we vacated the premises promptly. That was the strongest sensation of evil I have ever felt; I could feel it all the way to my core, it was very disturbing. Much earlier in life, before marriage, when ever I would go into a “meat market” style bar, I would get the same feeling but to a much lesser degree and now I know what that was.
    If you look at the parable of the wheat and the tares Matt 13:24, you will see that some are really children of the evil one. In my limited mind, a tare can not change into wheat therefore some are destined for the fire. I think that they realize this (on some level) and that is why some act the way they do, look at some examples: Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Ahmadinnijab, Arafat, Hugo Chavez, Jim Jones, Ted Bundy, etc.

  31. 31
    Sarge says:

    All I know is that Evil exists, and that there are people who do Evil things.

    I know Evil when I see it, and I find that most people agree with me when they see the same thing.

  32. 32
    Sarge says:

    I read this article, and I find it to be of the “you’re not really pissed off at what you think you’re pissed off at” type that the media tends to throw out when the Democrats get their asses handed to them in a wicker basket.

    And yet, if Democrats lose their grip on Congress in November, President Obama would become the third consecutive president to see his party tossed from power on his watch — a sequence that has never happened before in the country’s tumultuous political history. This suggests that, however much the issues of the moment may seem to be defining these elections, there are some deeper forces at work, too.

    Apparenlty, to these folks the “issues” aren’t what’s driving the coming wave, its stuff like

    The focus group that met here in New Jersey on Monday included a bartender, a lawyer and a school bus driver. The dominant theme of the discussion, in which jobs and taxes came up only in passing, seemed to be the larger breakdown of civil society — the disappearance of common courtesy, the relentless stream of data from digital devices, the proliferation of lawsuits and the insidious influence of media on their children.

    One woman described a food fight at the middle school that left a mess school employees were obliged to clean up, presumably because the children couldn’t be subjected to physical labor. A man complained about drivers who had grown increasingly hostile and inconsiderate on the roads, which drew nods of assent all around. Another described the Internet as just plain “bad.”

    The economy was discussed mostly in connection with these other stresses. “We all think that if we had a lot of money,” one woman said, “everything would slow down and we could enjoy ourselves.”

    These voters did not hate politicians. They simply saw both parties, along with the media and big business, as symptoms of the larger societal ailment. And this underlying perception, that politicians in Washington conduct themselves just as childishly and with the same lack of accountability as the kids throwing chicken casserole in the lunchroom, may well be the principal emotion behind the electorate’s propensity to vote out whoever holds power.

    it would seem to me that instead of using pin head focus groups like these, someone ought to check and see what the last three presidents have in common as to goals and policies, and then the first bunch that doesn’t do that stuff will b e in power for at least the next 30 years.

    Spending, growing government, raising taxes, and Congressional corruption kind of come to mind.

  33. 33
  34. 34
    Bonecrusher says:

    Sarge: Sometimes nominally decent people do evil things and that does not make them evil per se, however, there are those who are evil by nature. I think that Scripture makes a distinction between evil and wickedness (twistedness); Ezek ch 18 and 33 make it clear that wicked people can be restored/redeemed via repentance, I don’t recall an example where someone described as evil ever repented.

  35. 35
  36. 36
    Sarge says:

    Anybody else find that the title of Kathleen Parker’s lastest Op Ed:

    The consequences of losing our sense of decency

    is a bit ironic given that she makes money every weeknight sitting next to Eliot Spitzer?

  37. 37
    wagonburner says:

    #33 bob
    badgelicker. ;)

  38. 38
    Bonecrusher says:

    #35 Bob: I agree that the senseless persecution of these folks is dangerous on many levels. The people targeted by the Rambo wannabees present a danger to absolutely no one; and in the process the cop-turds tend to shred the constitution – not cool.
    You and I are on the same/similar page when it comes to drugs – I say decriminalize all of it and let those who must fry their brains do so with out the nannystate intervention.

  39. 39
    Tedtam says:

    #31 Sarge

    I feel the same way about gang thugs. I say put ‘em all in a big warehouse somewhere, let them bring their weapons, and lock the door.

  40. 40
  41. 41
    bob42 says:

    #38 Stoner!

    But seriously, I’m thrilled that we share some common ground there. It’s tragic when a person becomes addicted to any dangerous substance, legal or not. But at this point, it’s high time we looked at policies that might be more effective, less violent, and less costly to society.

    Now, if we could just get a few more politicians to employ your rational thinking on the matter…

  42. 42
    Katfish says:

    #23 – Well received – and apparently dovetails with my ‘curse’ portion………………

    Folks with those abilities (I’m guessing) often wish they could flip a dang switch and turn it off!

  43. 43
    Bonecrusher says:

    41Bob42: I used to be a stoner but no longer and not for some time. When I was a stoner, I cared not one whit about its legality, only that I avoided “the man”, I was going to use ithe substance anyway – now, I have no desire to use and care not one whit whether it is legal or not, I am still not going to use.

  44. 44
    Tedtam says:

    Okay, Wednesday weirdness.

    Cover your eyes. Not totally safe for work. Or for your mental health.

    You have been warned.

  45. 45
    Bonecrusher says:

    THIS ain’t cool at all.

    Hungary declared a state of emergency in three counties after the sludge — waste produced during bauxite refining which has a strong caustic effect and heavy metal content — hit the villages of Kolontar, Devecser and others.
    snip/
    Rescue workers said many people had suffered burns and eye irritation from lead and corrosive elements in the mud. The flood, estimated at about 700,000 cubic meters (24 million cubic feet), swept cars off roads and damaged bridges and houses, forcing the evacuation of about 500 residents.

    Many villagers said they were unlikely to return home.

    Can you imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth of the ecoturds here if 24 million cubic feet of caustic, heavy metal laden sludge including lead were to be released in this country?? It is a huge big deal and the land, being lead contaminated is, could be unsuitable for humans for a long time.

  46. 46
    bob42 says:

    #43 Bonecrusher, same here. I didn’t touch the stuff until college, but for the next ~20 years after touched it frequently. But never at work. Some DJs did, but I found that it affected my vocal center too much. As one gets older, I think it’s just natural to stop enjoying it as much or as often.

    Most recently I’ve smoked once or twice just to prove the point (to Darren) that someone could do so without fear of arrest or drug thugs, and a couple of years ago I scored a full baggie at the request of my bro-in-law who was having serious troubles with his cancer chemo.

    The most recent polls are showing CA’s Prop 19 with a solid 9 to 11 point lead. Should the measure pass, it will be an interesting issue in terms of local control/states rights vs. federal authoritah.

  47. 47
  48. 48
    Sarge says:

    The most recent polls are showing CA’s Prop 19 with a solid 9 to 11 point lead. Should the measure pass, it will be an interesting issue in terms of local control/states rights vs. federal authoritah.

    Golly gee, there Bob.

    You feel differently about voters passing a change to the law through initiative and referendum when it comes to legalizing pot than you did about the gay marriage thing.

    Whoda thunk it?

    Kinda figured you’d be consistent in your ideology.

    But, I guess when a judge rules it unconstitutional and says that only the Governor can appeal his ruling, you’ll agree with him just like you did when that judge ruled the gay marriage thing unconstitutional.

  49. 49
    wagonburner says:

    Today’s history for you people.

    In 1872 the Arabs invented the condom, using a goat’s lower intestine.

    In 1873 the British somewhat refined the idea by taking the intestine out of the goat first.

  50. 50
    bob42 says:

    #48 Sarge, I am.

    Kinda figured you’d be consistent in your ideology.

    Both prop 19, and the challenge of 2008′s prop 8 promote less government control, and less intrusion into folks private lives. Do you disagree?

    If prop 19 passes, and folks think it’s harmful and of no benefit, they are free to challenge it and prove their point in an environment where facts count more than fear mongering mobs, just as the challengers to prop 8 successfully did.

    Again, I’m consistently in favor of limited government and personal freedom. You seem to be consistently in favor of big government controlling peoples lives, at your subjective whim. Am I wrong?

  51. 51
    Sarge says:

    Again, I’m consistently in favor of limited government and personal freedom. You seem to be consistently in favor of big government controlling peoples lives, at your subjective whim. Am I wrong?

    Bbbbbbut, golly

    Doesn’t it mean that one group of voters will be using their superior numbers to impose their authroitah on others?

    That was pretty much your take on the Gay Marriage thing.

  52. 52
    wagonburner says:

    #51 Sargent
    hater

  53. 53
    Sarge says:

    #51 Sargent Sergeant

    FIFY

    That’s one I will spell right.

  54. 54
    Katfish says:

    #43 –

    I am still not going to use

    Hey no worries – more for US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    And no I never toke while working (far too many details to keep track of) – and as time passes (and inherent resistance fades) it takes less and less and less for the same enjoyment as the halcyon days of yore when you could not haul my consumption level off in a pick up truck!

    HEH

  55. 55
    Darren says:

    Well, it’s late and I’m tired and can’t come up with much right now.

    Hamous needs to indenture more servants on his plantation.

  56. 56
    Darren says:

    Bonecrusher #26;

    1) :)
    2)

    the guy who got his “bells” rung got arrested?!?

    I think he was threatened to be arrested.

    From fútfol to cajones, Morales just can’t stay away from ball smashing.

  57. 57
    bob42 says:

    #51 Sarge, what have you been smoking?

    Doesn’t it mean that one group of voters will be using their superior numbers to impose their authroitah on others?

    Maybe you have a point. If prop 19 passes, the government will be forced to give up your pipe dream of using violence and wasting money in a proven futile attempt to prohibit people from smoking a relatively harmless plant.

    No. Come to think of it, you have no point, at all, and are thinking irrationally. If prop 19 is “imposing authoritah” in your mind, I’d like to get a brain sample.

  58. 58
    Darren says:

    bob #50;

    Both prop 19, and the challenge of 2008′s prop 8 promote less government control, and less intrusion into folks private lives. Do you disagree?

    Hell yeah, I disagree.

    Do you have any idea why Prop 8 was necessary in the first place? Now that what should be a state issue regarding marriage has turned into a federal issue, how in the world has government “shrunk”?

    Unbelievable.

  59. 59
    Darren says:

    bob;

    If prop 19 passes, and folks think it’s harmful and of no benefit, they are free to challenge it and prove their point in an environment where facts count more than fear mongering mobs, just as the challengers to prop 8 successfully did.

    Facts? You seem to think that government derives its power from government, not from the governed.

  60. 60
    wagonburner says:

    #53 sarge
    I blame Apple.

    And you’re still a racist.

    ;)

  61. 61
    bob42 says:

    Darren, Uh, NO.

    Do you have any idea why Prop 8 was necessary in the first place? Now that what should be a state issue regarding marriage has turned into a federal issue, how in the world has government “shrunk”?

    Prop 8 was unnecessary. Those who thought it was, who spent $40+ million distorting the facts, and who convinced a fearful mob that it was “necessary” tucked their tails between their legs and ran when it came time to put their mouths where their money was in an environment where one must prove their point with real facts, not made up, blown out of proportion, fear mongering baloney.

    If you’re so smart on the subject, perhaps they could have used you as expert witness. Although their opening args promised many such witnesses, all but one backed out, and the one that did testify was completely creamed in cross examination.

    As for “turned into a federal issue” DUH. Can you spell DOMA? It was you big goverment loving social conservative authoritarians that turned this into a federal issue following one state’s equal treatment of free associations. Do you remember?

    You seem to think that government derives its power from government, not from the governed.

    Nope. I don’t think you have the authoritah to empower your government to treat people you don’t agree with differently. If you think that you do, then it is up to YOU, dude, and others of similar mind to make your case that it is necessary. You had your chance, and you failed when facts mattered.

    Get over it. It’s not like empowering government to treat people differently according to your religious whims keeps Cindy and Tracie from being gay. It just makes you feel better.

    Seriously man, it’s none of your business, they aren’t hurting anyone, and the government should not have the power you so want them to have.

    Small government. Personal freedom. That’s what conservatism used to mean.

  62. 62
    Darren says:

    If he voted no a couple of years ago, Judge Walker wasn’t alone. More than 6.4 million Californians voted against Proposition 8. At 48 percent, that was almost enough to constitute a majority. But Judge Walker presumably got two bites at the apple: First in the voting booth, then from the bench when he invalidated the votes of the 52 percent of people who voted the other way. It’s nice to be judge.

    Judge Walker’s decision is such a raw exercise of judicial imperiousness, he might as well have gone all the way and sentenced the defenders of Proposition 8 to suffer, Chinese-style, a parade of shame through the streets of San Francisco wearing placards emblazoned “I Support Bizarre and Retrograde Social Practices.”

    Hmmmmm, why would the part of the blockquote I emboldened have quotations around it? Must reflect those “facts” Judge Walker based his ruling on.

    LINK

    From the first, Judge Walker made it clear that he didn’t want to rule on the legal merits of the case — a relatively simple matter of issuing a summary judgment — but literally to relitigate Proposition 8.

    Afterall, it’s a fact that it is a judge’s role to relitigate constitutional amendments. Forget the legal passage of Prop 8, it is judges who are to legislate, not the LEGISLATOR who gave the people of California the power to pass propositions.

    (Do note the sarcasm)

  63. 63
  64. 64
    Darren says:

    I don’t think you have the authoritah to empower your government to treat people you don’t agree with differently. If you think that you do, then it is up to YOU, dude, and others of similar mind to make your case that it is necessary. You had your chance, and you failed when facts mattered.

    Yes you do.

    UPDATED

  65. 65
    Darren says:

    bob;

    By DOMA, do you mean the *legislated* law? And doesn’t DOMA uphold what Californians voted for with Prop 8? Now that the decision on the state level was overturned and made into a federal issue, how has government shrunk?

    And who’s a judge to overrule a constitutional amendment? His authority came from the fact that he decided he had authority to overrule established laws based upon the legal authority of the people and, by your own admission, supported by federal law. And you’re cool with Walker’s authority.

  66. 66
  67. 67
    Darren says:

    Learn some of the secrets of martial arts.

  68. 68
  69. 69
    bob42 says:

    Darren, DOMA was a political tactic on the part of professional politicians and politically affiliated right wing religious organization to convince big government loving social conservative authoritarians such as you, that same sex marriage was some kind of dire threat, so it was of vital importance to swing the duopoly pendulum back to the right, as quickly as possible.

    It worked. It helped get and keep their butts in office so that they could spend money like drunken democrats.

    Now that several states have legalized civil unions and recognized same sex marriage, and the world hasn’t ended as a result, the wind is increasingly out of those sails. Of course there are still plenty that rely on the tactic, and lets face it, for a lot of them it’s about all they have to run on. I think they’re nucking futs, and I’m not inclined to vote for them unless there very compelling reasons to.

    Of course, you’re entitled to your own opinion. If you’d like to think that treating Cindy and Tracie equally under the law will cause every church across the fruited plains to be converted into an Abercrombie and Fitch factory outlet store that’s fine with me.

    If you claim the authoritah to use disinformation and mob rule to treat them differently, I’m gonna have a problem with that, and I’m gonna gently remind you to mind your own stinking business and leave others alone until you and your ilk can actually PROVE that the exaggerated crap that littered the free speech airways prior to prop 8 was factual.

    A lot of it wasn’t.

  70. 70
    Hamous says:

    Voting for the traditional definition of marriage = mob rule forcing their will on helpless victims through illegal authoritah.

    Voting for legalization of marijuana = citizens exercising their constitutionally-derived authority.

    What was that phrase about selective perception bias? And the irony flies right over your head.

  71. 71
    wagonburner says:

    Dude set a new record speed of 96mph at Bonneville.

  72. 72
  73. 73
    wagonburner says:

    #70 hamous
    Your just an evil Christianist Papist homophobe trying to force your own morals on people who are just trying to express themselves and become what their inner selves yearn for. How can you think that by denying Cindy and Tracie the benefits of societal recognition of their love for each other that you are actually doing any good for anyone? Just like your senseless WoD, throwing people into jail for possession of a plant, your virtual jihad against the free association of like-minded individuals in marriage makes no sense.

  74. 74
    bob42 says:

    #70 You got the perception bias down pat there, buddy. Nice job.

    Voting for the traditional definition of marriage = mob rule forcing their will on helpless victims through illegal authoritah.

    How “traditional” do you want to get? In some traditions, marriages are arranged and polygamous. Very recently in this country, government defined marriage as being between two people of the same race. When those laws were ruled unconstitutional, was it judicial activism? Or perhaps it’s only judicial activism when you disagree with the outcome. Care to answer those questions? Or does your selective perception advise you against doing so.

    You want government to define marriage to your liking, and have it in peoples pants and bedrooms, I say butt out and mind your own business unless there’s good reason for it to be there. You authoritarians have repeatedly failed to do that. You’re all talk and no walk. When it comes time to present facts to back up your BS political ads, you can’t do it.

    Voting for legalization of marijuana = citizens exercising their constitutionally-derived authority.

    Wrong again. We are exercising the right to eliminate the illegitimate authority government endowed upon itself. Our rights to do so are not granted by by government, they are ours. Cannabis prohibition is a 20th century phenomenon. The war on drugs was invented by Richard Nixon. It’s had its chance, it has failed miserably, and it is long past time for it to be stopped.

    Just as the bad idea that was blue nosed busy body big government authoritarian alcohol prohibition was ended by popular demand, eventually so will the stupid prohibition of a silly plant.

    Your apples and orange comparison is completely irrational. But thanks for trying.

  75. 75
    Darren says:

    From #69;

    Now that several states

    And I kinda like it that way. Bob doesn’t.

  76. 76
    Darren says:

    Wagon #71;

    At first I thought you missed a “0″ for the ones value.

    Heh, that’s one fast lawnmower. I wanna order one.

  77. 77
    Darren says:

    How “traditional” do you want to get?.

    That’s a tough one. Hmmmmmmmm, I’ll have to go with traditional US marriage.

    2005 Spain legalized civil unions, a.k.a., gay marriage. Even at an all-time US low, their birth rates are significantly less than that of US.

    Spain Birth rate

    U.S. Birth Rate Hits All-Time Low
    Teen birth rate also falls to record low

    We are exercising the right to eliminate the illegitimate authority government endowed upon itself.

    And where did Judge Walker get his authority to overturn a state constitutional amendment? I think we’re seeing the misinformation side of life here.

    It’s had its chance, it has failed miserably, and it is long past time for it to be stopped.

    Income taxes too. How about we refuse to pay it since it’s our natural right not to?

  78. 78
    bob42 says:

    #77

    That’s a tough one. Hmmmmmmmm, I’ll have to go with traditional US marriage.

    Hmmmmmmmmm, would that be the “tradition” before the civil war where black peoples marriages were defined by government as lasting only “until distance separates you”?

    Or would it be the “tradition” until the early 20th century when most states prohibited mixed race marriages. Speaking of which, where did the supreme court “get their authority” to finally end that nonsense in 1967? I don’t doubt that there were more than a few narrow minded authoritarian Jim Crow bigots screaming JUDICIAL ACTIVISM! as a result of the Loving v. Virginia ruling.

    “Tradition” in the context of government defining marriage is a term of convenience, to be tossed around when it is deemed beneficial in duping the uniformed and historical ignorant purely for the purposes of political gain.

    Regarding birth rates, on the one hand you seem to claim that legalizing civil unions in Spain had something to with the decline there, but also point out that the same decline is observed in this country, where civil unions are the exception rather than the rule. That’s not even correlation, much less causation. It’s flat out contradictory, and ignores the fact that regardless of laws concerning civil unions or same sex marriage, birth rates in industrialized nations are trending downward. I really find it hard to believe that a person of your obvious intelligence could rationally blame that on teh gayz.

    On second thought, maybe you wouldn’t have made a very good expert witness in CA.

    This has been fun. Good night, and have a pleasant tomorrow.

  79. 79
    Katfish says:

    Wait a second……………………..has anyone ever seen Bob and Headshaker in the same place?????????

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

  80. 80
    Darren says:

    Hmmmmmmmmm, would that be the “tradition” before the civil war where black peoples marriages were defined by government as lasting only “until distance separates you”?

    Really? That’s America’s “tradition”? Wait, hold on, didn’t the people correct government’s position? Or did a judge rule it unconstitutional? Was that standard based on law or a constitutional amendment, state or federal?

    Or would it be the “tradition” until the early 20th century when most states prohibited mixed race marriages.

    How was that, however foul, unconstitutional?

    Loving v. Virginia, 388 U.S. 1 (1967)[1], was a landmark civil rights case in which the United States Supreme Court, by a 9-0 vote, declared Virginia’s anti-miscegenation statute, the “Racial Integrity Act of 1924″, unconstitutional, thereby overturning Pace v. Alabama (1883) and ending all race-based legal restrictions on marriage in the United States.

    Can you show me where this is unconstitutional? And was this ruling against a law or a constitutional amendment?

    Now, bob, you showed me example of how ideas came and went. Care to mention the only idea regarding marriage which has lasted throughout the centuries in the United States?

    Question for you, is it traditional in America to believe in freedom for all?

    Regarding birth rates, on the one hand you seem to claim that legalizing civil unions in Spain had something to with the decline there

    Accepting homosexual marriage always seems to follw a general devaluation of traditional marriage and family.

    That said, how will civil unions help the birth rate in either country? A nation cannot survive with low birth rates. That’s a simple matter of mathematics. Even in the self-indulgent United States of America birth rates are significantly higher than in Europe, which homosexual marriage is much more accepted. What good will it do to usher in gay arriage? Note, I’m not asking what bad will gay marriage have on sicety, I’m asking what good it will have.

    I really find it hard to believe that a person of your obvious intelligence could rationally blame that on teh gayz.

    As I pointed out, I didn’t.

    On second thought, maybe you wouldn’t have made a very good expert witness in CA.

    In our current state of Californian affairs, I thank you for that compliment. Next thing you know, you’ll say I’ll be no good for the United Nations. Maybe we can get a federal judge to rule it as out of date and it’s exitence is based on fear and irrationality. You knowe, that people may make laws only if a judge says the can.

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